Coptic Pope Shenouda III. Supports Mubarek's Government
#21
(02-01-2011, 05:52 PM)alaric Wrote:
(02-01-2011, 05:39 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(02-01-2011, 05:34 PM)alaric Wrote:
(02-01-2011, 05:21 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: The people against Mubarek aren't an improvement on Israel, I'm afraid.

You mean the MB are some kind of covert Zionists?

Neither Zionists nor Islamists are to be desired.

However, corrupt governments such as Mubarak's (or Khaddafi's) at least keep islamist movements in check. If the Muslim Brotherhood manages to topple the Arab governments in the Middle East and rule, most of these countries will go decades back in time and the local Christian populations will suffer greatly under harsher dhimmitude.


That is a good point, but how do you explain our friendly relations with most Muslim nations like Saudi Arabia? Aren't they the perfect example of dhimmitude?

I certainly don't intend to exhaustively dissert about US foreign policy. Dans le point de vue d'un étranger, it seems to me that the US strive to keep friendly relations with most Arab nations in order to protect their own economic interests in the region. Most modern politics are ruled by the principles of realpolitik, not by morality. The Saudi government has profitable ties with the US. Although they forbid the practice of Christianity in Arabia, they keep the more extreme wahhabi factions in check, factions that could endanger American and Israeli interests in case they achieved ruling positions. The same with the Muslim Brotherhood in other countries. Guys like Mubarak or Khaddafi are tolerated because they will keep their own Muslim populations in check. Given the alternatives, I can't say I disagree. The democratisation of the Muslim world will only be achievable when Islam is out of the picture, in a similar way to what happened in Europe with Christianity. It was only when the Church was on her knees (Reformation, French Revolution, Liberalism), that democracy finally throve and became the new golden calf.

I don't believe that the protection of local Christian populations was ever at the heart of Washington's preoccupations, or Brussels' (EU) for that matter. At best, they pay some lip service to them but in truth they serve Mammon. You must understand that politics are terribly secularised today. The ignorance and rejection of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom is pervasive throughout the Western world.
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#22
Tough call.  On one hand, you have to assume that Christians under the Moslem Brotherhood would suffer, so we would have to support Mubarek.

On the underhand, it was under Mubarek that the Copts were recently slaughtered.  Maybe God is chastising Egypt for the slaughter.
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#23
The mohamadan birthed is involved the r getting more involved daily they escorted the leader of the oposition yesterday for hs safety
this is te thing Catholics should get if some don't tough
dhinitude is never an option for Catholics to support
if u support movements that are against isreal (fine) who's goal is dhinitude for our brothers (mhamadan bortherhood) thatvis no fine
politics isn't as simle as
thy r against isreal so I suppress them
that's dumb
there is more to life and poliic. Then isreal
rther is how will my brother ctholics be treated better or worse. If I bekve we r treated better under dhinitude then go to Iran and see foe yourself
mubarack is better then dhinitude
face it!!
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#24
As Catholics, we need to be mindful of the natural gravitation to order and loyalty to a rightful leader.  This is supported by Magesterial teachings, as well as Scripture (e.g., St. Paul's submission to Augustus, Christ's submission to Pilate.)

A tricky thing is dealing with modernity and democracy/rule of the people.  We can debate the merits of popular governments in other topics of course.

For Coptic Christians, there appear to be two major considerations that clearly lend to Mubarak.  First, he is the rightful leader of the Egyptian state and allowing street rebels using chaos to oust the leader is unacceptable as a matter of course.  Second, while the state clearly is not Christian oriented, it is a much better option than either civil war or the Muslim Brotherhood in power.

As the situation deteriorates and police organization becomes less credible, this will portend harsher circumstances for Egyptian Christians.



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