There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest
(02-23-2011, 04:39 AM)Catholic Johnny Wrote: St.Cyril:
Quote:Paul also is witness, saying, Neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor the rest, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 He said not, such are some of you, but such were some of you. Sin committed in the state of ignorance is pardoned, but persistent wickedness is condemned.

St. Cyril here buttresses my position handily.  He says after enlightenment, you have no excuse to persist in wickedness.  It is a trap to couple the comtemporary nomenclature for sin against nature with personhood in the order of grace.  It is supremely uncharitible towards the [former] sodomite to do so.

St. Ireneus:
Quote:And such were some of you; but you have been washed, but you have been sanctified in the name of our Lord. 1 Corinthians 6:11 If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things, and to abstain from others?

St. Ireneus here demonstrates the freedom to change one's will on things - which cannot exclude the decision to self-identify as one who sins against nature.  This follows naturally from the renewing of the mind (cf Romans 12:2; Eph. 4-21-24)

St. Augustine:
Quote:Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 After reading these, I charged them to consider how believers could hear these words, but you are washed, if they still tolerated in their own hearts— that is, in God's inner temple— the abominations of such lusts as these against which the kingdom of heaven is shut.
(emphasis yours)

How could this be any plainer, Quis?  He is clearly saying that those who have received the grace of conversion in the new birth are NOT CHRISTIANS (kingdom of heaven shut) if they TOLERATE abominable lusts in their own hearts?  And your position is that not only are they sodomites(homosexual persons), but that the Church tells them so!   How can this be a charitable position towards those that have been ensnared in this sinful pattern?

St. Augustine did not say they are "not Christians".  He challenged them on how they could consider themselves Christians if they still indulged in the same sinful thoughts and behaviors.  It was not an excommunication, it was given as pastoral consideration.  They were still Christians, but they were unworthy of the title.

The Church (and I, I will remind you) condemn both homosexual acts and the dwelling on them for pleasure (tolerating within one's heart).

I can make it plainer.  Here is a Catholic commentary on the Bible, not a Protestant one:


Ver. 8-11. Defraud....your brethren. That is, you still make yourselves much more guilty by the injustices done to one another: for the unjust, and all they who are guilty of such crimes as I have mentioned, shall not possess the kingdom of God. And some of you were guilty of part of them, which have been washed off by your conversion, and your baptism, when you were justified. (Witham) --- And such some of you were. It is probable that this was added by the apostle, to soften his preceding words, lest he might seem to accuse all the Corinthians of each of these sins, and he likewise adds, such indeed you were, but now you are washed, &c. &c. (Estius; St. Thomas Aquinas)

That passage does not mean at all what you are reading into it.  I will say it again: you are depending on a Protestant (or NAB - same thing in practical terms) interpretation of those passages.  The reborn Christians love that passage - their heresy is based on it, and your statements are quasi-heretical or at least proximate heresy when you misunderstand what the "new man" is.  The man is new because he is washed in the laver of baptism, receiving remission of Original Sin and an indelible mark placed on his soul.

Unlike the Protestants, the Church teaches, as I am sure you are aware but I point out for completeness and clarity, our sins are obliterated, including Original Sin at baptism.  They are not snow covering a dung heap like certain Protestant sects think.  We suffer the temporal fallout from Original Sin, but we are no longer stained by it - that is the New Man.  As Haydock cites: "[the sins] which have been washed off by your conversion, and your baptism, when you were justified"; that is how they are made a New Man.  To state one still has same sex attraction problems, including by using the word "homosexual" in its proper sense,  is not a sin anymore than admitting one still has problems with impulsive impure thoughts or stealing or whatever.

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Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - by Historian - 02-23-2011, 02:51 PM

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