There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest
(03-04-2011, 04:53 PM)Malleus Haereticorum Wrote:
(03-04-2011, 04:14 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(03-04-2011, 02:24 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: There is a difference between actual sin and original sin. Meaning no one can avoid original sin. Everyone can avoid devient sexual behavior. The behavior causes the homosexual lust not the other way around.

So, you're saying homosexual lust only results from acts, but heterosexual (i.e., normal) lust only results from original sin?  It that it?

If so, my question still stands:

Quote:Do you have a theological citation for that?  If not, what are you basing your belief that original sin, the fall from grace, is not part of all sin?

My counterargument, if that's your contention, is that it seems to me that Church teaching is all sin comes from our fallen nature, and that would include even unnatural acts such as masturbation, sodomy, bestiality, etc.  St. Thomas (ST II-II Q 154) argues that unnatural lust is a species of lust, and lust obviously comes from our fallen nature, therefore, I would argue, so do unnatural acts and lust.

Self-abuse is an unnatural act.  Do you think that comes from our fallen nature or from behavior?  If you say from fallen nature, what makes sodomy special since both are unnatural acts?  How would you answer St. Thomas?

Well the answer lies in the guilt of actual sin , rather than in our propensity to sin due to Original sin.   Yes , we all have a fallen human nature - but we also have the Grace of GOD in sufficient measure to overcome that fallen human nature.   As no man is tempted beyond his strength.   Like it or not all sin remains a willful act against the morality of GOD.    So all sin actually comes from our refusal of GOD's sufficient grace and that temptation is possible because of our fallen human nature.   Lust remains a temptation and if given in to willfully  then a Sin.    But no man is tempted beyond hisa strength.   That is key.   If that were not true - we would not face judgement day.

Well, I was asking voxp, but OK, we can have another parallel debate besides the one we are having.

Quote:Well the answer lies in the guilt of actual sin

The answer to what?  Here are the questions I asked:

Quote:If not, what are you basing your belief that original sin, the fall from grace, is not part of all sin?
Do you think that comes from our fallen nature or from behavior?
If you say from fallen nature, what makes sodomy special since both are unnatural acts?
How would you answer St. Thomas?

I don't see you answering any of those.  Your statement is a pious commentary on nothing being talked about; it's a random commentary on grace being able to overcome our sinful natures.

The questions I asked go to voxp's distinction between the sin of sodomy and other sins including other unnatural acts.  Namely his statements:

The behavior causes the homosexual lust not the other way around.
The willingness to engage in Sodomitic acts is not part of original sin. The sin of theft or anger is.


I believe they are theologically erroneous, I have stated why, and I asked him to answer my questions in defense of his statements.

If you want to answer those questions, that would be interesting.  Even if you don't want to answer questions, but make a statement on the nature of sodomy vs. other sins, at least it would be relevant.  What you offered is nothing more than a regurgitation of the Catechism on the efficacy of grace.  It's just a soliloquy that's being done out of context.
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Re: There is No Such Thing as a Homosexual Catholic Priest - by Historian - 03-04-2011, 05:10 PM



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