Fake Milk
#31
(02-21-2011, 04:46 AM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: Baby Walburga can't have any cow's milk for a while, which means that Mrs. WRC can't have any either.

So Mrs. WRC has been trying soy milks.  I think it's gross, but she doesn't mind it in her cereal.  Different brands taste better or worse.  You might have to shop around a little to find what you like.

Try goat's milk.  Babies that can't drink cow's milk can drink goat's milk.

That's not always the case.  My younger brothers (twins) couldn't tolerate goat's milk, cow's milk, any formula that was tried in the two weeks they were in the hospital as newborns (standard practice back then) or after they came home. 


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#32
(02-22-2011, 10:25 AM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 03:41 PM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 01:59 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: You might try n get your hands on raw,unadulterated Milk  from a farmer that sells "cow shares". we do this.All adults are lactose intolerant to some degree or other.Some folk suffer worse than others but many modern problems are a result of the pasteurization and homogenization process store bought milk goes through.

Didn't people used to get sick from unpateurized milk?  Does anyone know why they started this process in the first place?

One of our students nearly died as a result of drinking raw milk, which was from a certified (for safety) local source.  He was infected with Campylobacter and his infection was severe enough to cause him to be hospitalized for a week or more.   He was 20 and in perfect health before contracting campylobacteriosis.  

I don't know if it caused him long-term effects; CDC says "It is estimated that approximately one in every 1,000 reported Campylobacter illnesses leads to Guillain-Barré syndrome.As many as 40% of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases in this country may be triggered by campylobacteriosis."  Another long-term effect of campylobacteriosis is arthritis.  Death is obviously a very long-term effect, though it occurs soon after infection, when it occurs.  Most people recover but

The CDC says "Outbreaks of Campylobacter are usually associated with unpasteurized milk or contaminated water."

Those who choose to drink raw milk think it's safe to do so as long as you buy from a farmer whose herd is certified as safe.  But our student did that and was very, very sick.

There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbm...r/#prevent

This is an issue of general good farming practice and has nothing to do with milk per se. 83% of store bought chickens tested positive for Campylobacter in one study:

http://www.naturalnews.com/021258_salmon...acter.html

The heightened fear surround Raw milk verges on the hysterical.Bacterial infection from food in general is quite prevalent sadly.Heres a story about burger meat yet the CDC seems unconcerned:

"There are 14 billion hamburgers consumed each year in the United States alone. The people who eat those burgers, though, have little knowledge of what's actually in them. Current USDA regulations, for example, openly allow beef contaminated with E. coli to be repackaged, cooked and sold as ready-to-eat hamburgers.

This simple fact would shock most consumers if they knew about it. People assume that beef found to be contaminated with E. coli must be thrown out or destroyed (or even recalled), but in reality, it's often just pressed into hamburger patties, cooked, and sold to consumers. This practice is openly endorsed by the USD

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027414_chicke...z1EhqFF1vs"



There are plenty of other "horror" stories concerning tomatoes and lettuce to name but 2...
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#33
The government war on raw milk is an attack against food freedom

"In the history of food, pasteurized, homogenized cow's milk is a relatively new thing. For most of recent history, milk has been consumed as a fresh, raw beverage, just hours out of the cow. Each day's milk was usually harvested that very morning from the local cow, and most farms had at least one milk cow. (For many families, it was what kept them alive through the harsh winters...)

During all these centuries, fresh cow's milk was considered a nourishing, even lifesaving beverage that provided people with hard-to-find proteins and fats in times when calories were hard to come by.

Pasteurization and the road to dead food
This went on until roughly the end of the 19th century, when pasteurization was introduced to the milk industry as a way to increase the shelf life of milk by killing the bacteria that spoil it. By "cooking" the milk, large milk producers were able to centralize product production at distant locations (large-scale dairy farms) and then ship the product to consumers anywhere in the country. When kept at the right refrigeration temperature, this pasteurized milk now had a shelf life many times longer than raw milk.

So the dairy industry grew profitable and large, and over the next few generations, Americans got used to "milk" meaning "pasteurized, homogenized milk" even though it was an unnatural alteration of the real milk that the country had grown up on.

Raw milk rediscovered
Fast forward to the 21st century: Now, more and more consumers are becoming aware of the health benefits of raw milk. It's loaded with active probiotics, of course, which we now know increase skin health and digestive health while potentially even improving cognitive function. So naturally, consumers started purchasing raw milk from their local farmers and coops in order to benefit from this raw, unprocessed food. (Actually, lots of health-conscious people have been doing this since the 1960's, but "raw milk" didn't really become popular among near-mainstream consumers until just the last few years...)"

"The idiotic war against raw milk
Now the war is on. State and federal regulatory agencies, spurred on by the monopolistic business practices of the dairy industry, have set out to criminalize the sale of raw milk. They've raided raw milk resellers, arrested raw milk marketers and seized countless gallons of raw milk to be destroyed.

Raw milk, the bureaucrats say, is dangerous because it hasn't been sanitized yet. Raw milk is "dirty" while cooked, pasteurized or irradiated milk is "clean." And Big Brother thinks you're not supposed to eat "dirty" foods like raw milk.

Sure, you can smoke yourself into a lifetime of cancer -- that's fully approved by the government. You can slather your body with personal care products laced with cancer-causing chemicals, because that's also approved by the government. You can drink brain-busting aspartame, chow down on diabetes-promoting MSG, or swallow any number of mouthfuls of processed foods laced with a thousand different synthetic chemicals that probably cause everything from cancer to Alzheimer's. Go take a swim in the Gulf of Mexico and soak up some Corexit dispersant chemicals -- the government doesn't protect you from any of that.

But raw milk? Well that's just too dangerous. It's all natural! And if you're the whored-out U.S. government -- now run by commercial interests -- natural is bad!..."



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/029178_raw_mi...z1EhrEDZVo
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#34
(02-22-2011, 10:25 AM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 03:41 PM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 01:59 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: You might try n get your hands on raw,unadulterated Milk  from a farmer that sells "cow shares". we do this.All adults are lactose intolerant to some degree or other.Some folk suffer worse than others but many modern problems are a result of the pasteurization and homogenization process store bought milk goes through.

Didn't people used to get sick from unpateurized milk?  Does anyone know why they started this process in the first place?
CDC says "It is estimated that approximately one in every 1,000 reported Campylobacter illnesses leads to Guillain-Barré syndrome.As many as 40% of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases in this country may be triggered by campylobacteriosis."
I dont buy this for a second.There are plenty  of Medical citations proving Guillain-Barré syndrome is caused by vaccines.I believe the CDC is combining its war on natural food (at the behest of Big Buisness) with its on-going cover-up of vaccine damage:

Citations here:

http://www.whale.to/a/guillain.html
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#35
(02-20-2011, 03:44 PM)Rosarium Wrote: I am a vegetarian/vegan, so I do not drink or use milk much. Since it has been so long, things with milk in them make me kind of ill (in a not so subtle way).

I have had a strange desire to eat cold cereal. I have an intellectual dislike of cold cereal because it is largely sugar and chemicals with parts of grains with the nutritional bit thrown out and vitamins and minerals added so they can say it is "healthy", and because it is eaten with milk, which I do not drink.

But, I decided to look for something simple, plain puffed rice (basically, popped rice in the spirit of pop corn). I found that (the cereals in the unassuming bags) and then to find some fake milk. I was considering soy milk, but I do not really have a preference for soy. I was hoping to find almond or rice milk, and I did. Maybe almond milk is more popular now, but I got some of that.

Now, I hope to have my first cold cereal in years...wish me luck.

Also, I got some flat bread (Greek) and some hummus for a familiar healthy meal.

I am thinking of getting a Cow which will eat only grass on my 13 acres here in Iowa.    I am also an organic gardener who only uses heirloom seeds.  I am sick of altered genetics by seed companies - Hormones in meat - Chemical fertilizers and herbicides - and  all the chemicals placed in products of a processed food society.    I think that people should eat the food that GOD provides in the way GOD provides it ,  be it plant or animal in origin.
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#36
(02-22-2011, 01:19 PM)Malleus Haereticorum Wrote:
(02-20-2011, 03:44 PM)Rosarium Wrote: I am a vegetarian/vegan, so I do not drink or use milk much. Since it has been so long, things with milk in them make me kind of ill (in a not so subtle way).

I have had a strange desire to eat cold cereal. I have an intellectual dislike of cold cereal because it is largely sugar and chemicals with parts of grains with the nutritional bit thrown out and vitamins and minerals added so they can say it is "healthy", and because it is eaten with milk, which I do not drink.

But, I decided to look for something simple, plain puffed rice (basically, popped rice in the spirit of pop corn). I found that (the cereals in the unassuming bags) and then to find some fake milk. I was considering soy milk, but I do not really have a preference for soy. I was hoping to find almond or rice milk, and I did. Maybe almond milk is more popular now, but I got some of that.

Now, I hope to have my first cold cereal in years...wish me luck.

Also, I got some flat bread (Greek) and some hummus for a familiar healthy meal.

I am thinking of getting a Cow which will eat only grass on my 13 acres here in Iowa.    I am also an organic gardener who only uses heirloom seeds.   I am sick of altered genetics by seed companies - Hormones in meat - Chemical fertilizers and herbicides - and  all the chemicals placed in products of a processed food society.    I think that people should eat the food that GOD provides in the way GOD provides it ,  be it plant or animal in origin.

I hear ya .Give me Gods food over the CDCs anyday...
Reply
#37

(02-22-2011, 12:32 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 10:25 AM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 03:41 PM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 01:59 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: You might try n get your hands on raw,unadulterated Milk  from a farmer that sells "cow shares". we do this.All adults are lactose intolerant to some degree or other.Some folk suffer worse than others but many modern problems are a result of the pasteurization and homogenization process store bought milk goes through.

Didn't people used to get sick from unpateurized milk?  Does anyone know why they started this process in the first place?

One of our students nearly died as a result of drinking raw milk, which was from a certified (for safety) local source.  He was infected with Campylobacter and his infection was severe enough to cause him to be hospitalized for a week or more.   He was 20 and in perfect health before contracting campylobacteriosis.  

I don't know if it caused him long-term effects; CDC says "It is estimated that approximately one in every 1,000 reported Campylobacter illnesses leads to Guillain-Barré syndrome.As many as 40% of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases in this country may be triggered by campylobacteriosis."  Another long-term effect of campylobacteriosis is arthritis.  Death is obviously a very long-term effect, though it occurs soon after infection, when it occurs.  Most people recover but

The CDC says "Outbreaks of Campylobacter are usually associated with unpasteurized milk or contaminated water."

Those who choose to drink raw milk think it's safe to do so as long as you buy from a farmer whose herd is certified as safe.  But our student did that and was very, very sick.

There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbm...r/#prevent

This is an issue of general good farming practice and has nothing to do with milk per se. 83% of store bought chickens tested positive for Campylobacter in one study:

http://www.naturalnews.com/021258_salmon...acter.html

The heightened fear surround Raw milk verges on the hysterical.Bacterial infection from food in general is quite prevalent sadly.Heres a story about burger meat yet the CDC seems unconcerned:

"There are 14 billion hamburgers consumed each year in the United States alone. The people who eat those burgers, though, have little knowledge of what's actually in them. Current USDA regulations, for example, openly allow beef contaminated with E. coli to be repackaged, cooked and sold as ready-to-eat hamburgers.

This simple fact would shock most consumers if they knew about it. People assume that beef found to be contaminated with E. coli must be thrown out or destroyed (or even recalled), but in reality, it's often just pressed into hamburger patties, cooked, and sold to consumers. This practice is openly endorsed by the USD

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027414_chicke...z1EhqFF1vs"



There are plenty of other "horror" stories concerning tomatoes and lettuce to name but 2...


Please note that I said "There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details."  


It is indeed an issue of good farming practice, and agribusiness in this country is largely despicable, but with raw milk, you're going to consume it raw, and you can't wash it like you do vegetables, so that makes it a greater potential danger to consumers.  

If beef contains E.coli or chicken contains Campylobacter but is cooked properly, nobody gets sick.  If veggies have E.coli on the surface but they're washed well, nobody gets sick, though you can't chop them on the same chopping board you just chopped raw chicken on or you're risking Campylobacter.

Those who buy raw milk need to know their source well.  But even when you do, things can go wrong, as happened to our student, and you can get very, very sick, even die.  People need to be aware of that.  If you're not immuno-compromised, you probably won't die from an infection, just wish you could.  But I'd be concerned about giving it to the young or the elderly or anyone with chronic health problems, especially when almond milk is such a great alternative to cows' milk.  Many people like rice milk, too, and soy milk.  The jury is still out on soy milk and estrogen.  Moderation is key.

Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

People should read the CDC page I linked, if they care about health.  Infants have gotten Campylobacter from the cart of the shopping basket they rode in.  Raw chicken "juice" shouldn't be on the outside of chicken packages but it obviously was and mom or dad transferred it to the basket handle after putting a package of chicken in the basket.  E. coli is commonly found on grocery basket handles, among many other places, and a lot of it is spread by people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet.   Disgustingly, some of those people work in restaurants.  I guess we need a national effort to teach people to wash their hands, with billboards, PSAs, etc.  It might make a dent in the dense heads of the dirty-handed.  






Reply
#38
(02-22-2011, 04:31 PM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 12:32 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 10:25 AM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 03:41 PM)dymphna17 Wrote:
(02-21-2011, 01:59 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: You might try n get your hands on raw,unadulterated Milk  from a farmer that sells "cow shares". we do this.All adults are lactose intolerant to some degree or other.Some folk suffer worse than others but many modern problems are a result of the pasteurization and homogenization process store bought milk goes through.

Didn't people used to get sick from unpateurized milk?  Does anyone know why they started this process in the first place?

One of our students nearly died as a result of drinking raw milk, which was from a certified (for safety) local source.  He was infected with Campylobacter and his infection was severe enough to cause him to be hospitalized for a week or more.   He was 20 and in perfect health before contracting campylobacteriosis.  

I don't know if it caused him long-term effects; CDC says "It is estimated that approximately one in every 1,000 reported Campylobacter illnesses leads to Guillain-Barré syndrome.As many as 40% of Guillain-Barré syndrome cases in this country may be triggered by campylobacteriosis."  Another long-term effect of campylobacteriosis is arthritis.  Death is obviously a very long-term effect, though it occurs soon after infection, when it occurs.  Most people recover but

The CDC says "Outbreaks of Campylobacter are usually associated with unpasteurized milk or contaminated water."

Those who choose to drink raw milk think it's safe to do so as long as you buy from a farmer whose herd is certified as safe.  But our student did that and was very, very sick.

There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbm...r/#prevent

This is an issue of general good farming practice and has nothing to do with milk per se. 83% of store bought chickens tested positive for Campylobacter in one study:

http://www.naturalnews.com/021258_salmon...acter.html

The heightened fear surround Raw milk verges on the hysterical.Bacterial infection from food in general is quite prevalent sadly.Heres a story about burger meat yet the CDC seems unconcerned:

"There are 14 billion hamburgers consumed each year in the United States alone. The people who eat those burgers, though, have little knowledge of what's actually in them. Current USDA regulations, for example, openly allow beef contaminated with E. coli to be repackaged, cooked and sold as ready-to-eat hamburgers.

This simple fact would shock most consumers if they knew about it. People assume that beef found to be contaminated with E. coli must be thrown out or destroyed (or even recalled), but in reality, it's often just pressed into hamburger patties, cooked, and sold to consumers. This practice is openly endorsed by the USD

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027414_chicke...z1EhqFF1vs"



There are plenty of other "horror" stories concerning tomatoes and lettuce to name but 2...


Please note that I said "There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details."  


It is indeed an issue of good farming practice, and agribusiness in this country is largely despicable, but with raw milk, you're going to consume it raw, and you can't wash it like you do vegetables, so that makes it a greater potential danger to consumers.  

If beef contains E.coli or chicken contains Campylobacter but is cooked properly, nobody gets sick.  If veggies have E.coli on the surface but they're washed well, nobody gets sick, though you can't chop them on the same chopping board you just chopped raw chicken on or you're risking Campylobacter.

Those who buy raw milk need to know their source well.  But even when you do, things can go wrong, as happened to our student, and you can get very, very sick, even die.  People need to be aware of that.  If you're not immuno-compromised, you probably won't die from an infection, just wish you could.  But I'd be concerned about giving it to the young or the elderly or anyone with chronic health problems, especially when almond milk is such a great alternative to cows' milk.  Many people like rice milk, too, and soy milk.  The jury is still out on soy milk and estrogen.  Moderation is key.

Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

People should read the CDC page I linked, if they care about health.  Infants have gotten Campylobacter from the cart of the shopping basket they rode in.  Raw chicken "juice" shouldn't be on the outside of chicken packages but it obviously was and mom or dad transferred it to the basket handle after putting a package of chicken in the basket.  E. coli is commonly found on grocery basket handles, among many other places, and a lot of it is spread by people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet.   Disgustingly, some of those people work in restaurants.  I guess we need a national effort to teach people to wash their hands, with billboards, PSAs, etc.  It might make a dent in the dense heads of the dirty-handed.  

I already buy Raw milk now.  I am thinking of getting the Cow so that I wont have to buy it anymore.  My Dad grew up on a farm in Indiana and his entire Family  Drank raw milk ,  he until he was in his 20's and never once got sick.  Its like anything else - Bacteria can grow in or on anything.  If I own the cow I can control the environment it is in.  And BTW , the Acreage I live on was once a Milk farm prior to the 60's and I still have the cow barn (Although it needs a lot of work,. )  There is a Brick building in town that still bears the title of "Creamery" in its facade although its an Auto repair business now.  IMO we need to ditch all this global economy and big agri business and get back to the way it used to be in the US.  We are all standing there while foreign interests take over what was once ours.  Unles we produce and consume what we produce we will be at thge mercy of foreign governments.
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#39
(02-22-2011, 04:31 PM)Revixit Wrote: Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

The problem is the government does not want to give people the choice.  Yes, one has to take some precautions with raw milk, but  there are riskier substances out there for which we allowed to weigh the risks and benefits and decide for ourselves.  Selling raw milk is illegal here in Ontario.  My son-in-law raises mixed purpose cattle.  We get raw milk and grass-fed beef from him.
Reply
#40
(02-22-2011, 04:42 PM)Malleus Haereticorum Wrote: I already buy Raw milk now.   I am thinking of getting the Cow so that I wont have to buy it anymore.   My Dad grew up on a farm in Indiana and his entire Family  Drank raw milk ,  he until he was in his 20's and never once got sick.  Its like anything else - Bacteria can grow in or on anything.   If I own the cow I can control the environment it is in.  And BTW , the Acreage I live on was once a Milk farm prior to the 60's and I still have the cow barn (Although it needs a lot of work,. )  There is a Brick building in town that still bears the title of "Creamery" in its facade although its an Auto repair business now.   IMO we need to ditch all this global economy and big agri business and get back to the way it used to be in the US.   We are all standing there while foreign interests take over what was once ours.   Unles we produce and consume what we produce we will be at thge mercy of foreign governments.

I think what you are doing is great, wish we could still garden as we used to, have chickens.  All we can manage now is a few herbs, looking forward to a new year of herbs and starting to sprout seeds to eat, too, which we used to do all the time.  We used to make yogurt and cottage cheese, still bake bread.  I'm a big believer in the Slow Food movement and the movement to eat locally produced food, want the world to slow down, enjoy.

I also hate Monsanto, GMOs, Frankenfood, agribusiness, monoculture, and totally agree that we should return to family farms.  As a biologist, I am totally opposed to GMOs, to patenting GMOs, to cloning, to IVF and AI, though I suppose AI in agriculture is acceptable as it allows a small farmer to have cows and calves without owning a bull.

I just want people to realize the potential dangers of raw milk and be sure they get raw milk from a farmer who knows how to keep the milk safe.  

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