Fake Milk
#41

Quote:Please note that I said "There are other ways to get Campylobacter and I recommend that anyone concerned about preventing food-borne illness read the CDC's report, which is not too technical or too long but gives all necessary details." 


It is indeed an issue of good farming practice, and agribusiness in this country is largely despicable, but with raw milk, you're going to consume it raw, and you can't wash it like you do vegetables, so that makes it a greater potential danger to consumers. 

If beef contains E.coli or chicken contains Campylobacter but is cooked properly, nobody gets sick.  If veggies have E.coli on the surface but they're washed well, nobody gets sick, though you can't chop them on the same chopping board you just chopped raw chicken on or you're risking Campylobacter.

Those who buy raw milk need to know their source well.  But even when you do, things can go wrong, as happened to our student, and you can get very, very sick, even die.  People need to be aware of that.  If you're not immuno-compromised, you probably won't die from an infection, just wish you could.  But I'd be concerned about giving it to the young or the elderly or anyone with chronic health problems, especially when almond milk is such a great alternative to cows' milk.  Many people like rice milk, too, and soy milk.  The jury is still out on soy milk and estrogen.  Moderation is key.

Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

People should read the CDC page I linked, if they care about health.  Infants have gotten Campylobacter from the cart of the shopping basket they rode in.  Raw chicken "juice" shouldn't be on the outside of chicken packages but it obviously was and mom or dad transferred it to the basket handle after putting a package of chicken in the basket.  E. coli is commonly found on grocery basket handles, among many other places, and a lot of it is spread by people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet.   Disgustingly, some of those people work in restaurants.  I guess we need a national effort to teach people to wash their hands, with billboards, PSAs, etc.  It might make a dent in the dense heads of the dirty-handed. 


The reality is that millions of Americans consume raw milk or its products daily and yet we don't hear about a vast pandemic of people keeling over with bacterial infection.Thats the reality and folk need to stop letting fear rule their lives .If people really care about health I recommend people avoid the CDC like the plague (pun intended)
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#42
(02-22-2011, 05:01 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 04:31 PM)Revixit Wrote: Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

The problem is the government does not want to give people the choice.  Yes, one has to take some precautions with raw milk, but  there are riskier substances out there for which we allowed to weigh the risks and benefits and decide for ourselves.  Selling raw milk is illegal here in Ontario.  My son-in-law raises mixed purpose cattle.  We get raw milk and grass-fed beef from him.

Had to put your oar in, too, eh?

I'm not responsible for what your government does.  And I was talking about not giving raw milk to other people's kids without asking the parents if it's OK, not about government denying you choices.  




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#43
(02-22-2011, 05:17 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: ]The reality is that millions of Americans consume raw milk or its products daily and yet we don't hear about a vast pandemic of people keeling over with bactrial infection.Thats the reality and folk need to stop letting fear rule their lives .If people really care about health I recommend people avoid the CDC like the plague (pun intended)

The effects of the full moon are still apparent here at FE. 

P.S.  MILLIONS of Americans consume raw milk daily?  You said we were all lactose intolerant, so who's drinking it?  Where do you get that "data" about MILLIONS from?


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#44
(02-22-2011, 05:18 PM)Revixit Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 05:01 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 04:31 PM)Revixit Wrote: Back in the mid-Seventies, raw milk was in vogue with some of the organic gardeners we knew (we had a huge organic garden back then and chickens and rabbits) and I didn't appreciate it when they gave it to the kids.  If they're your kids, it's your choice.  Otherwise, it's not.

The problem is the government does not want to give people the choice.  Yes, one has to take some precautions with raw milk, but  there are riskier substances out there for which we allowed to weigh the risks and benefits and decide for ourselves.  Selling raw milk is illegal here in Ontario.  My son-in-law raises mixed purpose cattle.  We get raw milk and grass-fed beef from him.



Had to put your oar in, too, eh?

I'm not responsible for what your government does.  And I was talking about not giving raw milk to other people's kids without asking the parents if it's OK, not about government denying you choices.  
When one looks at the stats you would  have to have the same concerns about tomatoes and burgers...which of course would be silly....which of course is what this fear mongering surrounding raw milk is....silly.
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#45
The CDC regularly finds itself involved in one cover-up after another not least in the case surrounding its collusion with the Obama administration to hide abortion stats:


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41586

Nice guys eh?
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#46
(02-22-2011, 05:19 PM)Revixit Wrote: P.S.  MILLIONS of Americans consume raw milk daily?  You said we were all lactose intolerant, so who's drinking it?   Where do you get that "data" about MILLIONS from?
No,thats not quite what I said actually.Have another read (even tho its irrelevant to the issue at hand) .And you are aware of how many people there actually are in the US right?
Hey,your the one  saying Raw milk is super dangerous.YOU find the stats and show us how dangerous it is why dontcha....
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#47
(02-22-2011, 05:18 PM)Revixit Wrote: I'm not responsible for what your government does.  And I was talking about not giving raw milk to other people's kids without asking the parents if it's OK, not about government denying you choices.  

You did not appreciate people giving raw milk to you children because they were infringing your right and responsibility to make the decision about this.  The people who want to use raw milk have the same right and the government here and elsewhere is interfering with inadequate reason.  I want to have the choice about this just like you do.
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#48
Interesting stats:

Bacterial infections from Raw and Pasteruised Milk in CA for 2006: (where I live)

2006 Campylobacter
          jejuni                  1,644        California Correctional facilities(multiple)Milk, postpasteurization


2006 E. coli
        O157:H7                  6      CA Private home Raw milk/raw colostrum  CDC 2008a

That's a big win for Raw Milk in CA for 2006 (1644 - 6 ).  CDC numbers by the way.
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#49
(02-22-2011, 05:50 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: That's a big win for Raw Milk in CA for 2006 (1644 - 6 ).  CDC numbers by the way.

So, you'll trust the CDC when it agrees with you.  Interesting...
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#50
(02-22-2011, 05:52 PM)Pilgrim Wrote:
(02-22-2011, 05:50 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: That's a big win for Raw Milk in CA for 2006 (1644 - 6 ).  CDC numbers by the way.

So, you'll trust the CDC when it agrees with you.  Interesting...

Actually I don't but I figured I'd fight fire with fire given our freinds absolute faith in that odious organisation.Thanks for not contributing anything meaningful btw....appreciate it.
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