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#71
In my opinion, despite the arguments about "burnt offering,"  "holocaust," etc., I find the following verse in the unchanged New Testament of the NAB very troublesome:

This is in Luke Chapter 2, where a decree goes out from the Roman Emperor about having all citizens go to the city of their birth to be enrolled:

Tha NAB version:

1 In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus 2 that the whole world should be enrolled.

2 This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria.

3 So all went to be enrolled, each to his own town.

4 And Joseph too went up from Galilee from the town of Nazareth to Judea, to the city of David that is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,

5 to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child.

6 While they were there, the time came for her to have her child,

7 and she gave birth to her firstborn son.  She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

Help me understand the word "bethrothed":  to me, it means, "engaged to be married"; "the person to whom one is engaged":  Joseph goes to Bethlehem with Mary and they are not "married" but only engaged.  The lifestyle of the 20th century, "living together"?  And horrors!!  She is with Child!!!


This is the Douay-Rheims version:


[1] And it came to pass, that in those days there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the whole world should be enrolled.
[2] This enrolling was first made by Cyrinus, the governor of Syria.
[3] And all went to be enrolled, every one into his own city.
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem: because he was of the house and family of David,
[[5] To be enrolled with Mary his espoused wife, who was with child.

[6] And it came to pass, that when they were there, her days were accomplished, that she should be delivered. [7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him up in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Joseph and Mary are married and she is wirth Child.  So what is this "bethrothed" thing in the NAB, echoed in the NIV (New International version), but the KJV gets it right.
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#72
Vincentius,
The word 'betrothed' is also used in St. Matthew 1:18, and its explanation is given there.  Moreover, in the very next verse, St. Joseph is called the Blessed Virgin's 'husband.'

Here is the explanation:

"Betrothed to Joseph: betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband's taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began."

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew1.htm
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#73
Further in Matthew 1 from the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible verse [20] "But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

Then Matthew 1:[24] "And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. [25] And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

This shows that this was before Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem as in Luke Chapter 2.  So these verses in Matthew 1 prove that Mary and Joseph were not just betrothed when they went to Bethlehem in Luke 2, but married.  These verses in Matthew 1 also prove that Mary was not just a "young woman" but a Virgin.

Matthew 1:24 in the New American Bible says "When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home."  This contradicts what the same New American Bible says in Luke 2:5 "to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. "

There's a big difference between espoused and betrothed.

es·pouse  (-spouz)
1.
a. To take in marriage; marry.
b. To give (a woman) in marriage.
2. To give one's loyalty or support to (a cause, for example); adopt.

be·trothed
–adjective
1.
engaged to be married: She is betrothed to that young lieutenant.
–noun
2.
the person to whom one is engaged: He introduced us to his betrothed.
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#74
So it seems like the NAB will continue to be ignored by Catholics as an alternative Bible translation. No Catholic that I know that includes NO Catholics use the NAB. I mean the Bishops might as well be passing notes to one another during the class, its pretty much the same thing.
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#75
Quote:The 1970 version of Isaiah 7:14 said "the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel."
The 2011 text refers to "the young woman" instead. It elaborates that the original Hebrew word, "almah," may, or may not, signify a virgin.

It's clear as the nose on your face. These bishops are formal heretics. They have blasphemed Mary and have formally and publicly repudiated the dogma of her perpetual virginity. To change "virgin" to "young woman" on the grounds that "almah" MAY signify a virgin, is to DENY that she was a virgin. To take something that is explicit and deliberately make it not-explicit, is the same as to deny it.
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#76
(03-08-2011, 01:53 AM)Unum Sint Wrote: So it seems like the NAB will continue to be ignored by Catholics as an alternative Bible translation. No Catholic that I know that includes NO Catholics use the NAB. I mean the Bishops might as well be passing notes to one another during the class, its pretty much the same thing.

Lucky. I once worked at a Catholic bookstore and the NAB was the version I sold the most by far, even though we also had the RSV-CE, DR and Jerusalem Bibles. I would say the NAB holds virtually a monopoly on the Catholic Bible market, thanks to the USCCB. The USCCB is responsible for quite a few near-monopolies, actually, including within the fields of liturgical books and sacred music. Perhaps this is a good idea in theory, but in practice....... gross.
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#77
(03-07-2011, 04:43 PM)mikemac Wrote: Further in Matthew 1 from the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible verse [20] "But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

Then Matthew 1:[24] "And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. [25] And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

This shows that this was before Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem as in Luke Chapter 2.  So these verses in Matthew 1 prove that Mary and Joseph were not just betrothed when they went to Bethlehem in Luke 2, but married.  These verses in Matthew 1 also prove that Mary was not just a "young woman" but a Virgin.

Matthew 1:24 in the New American Bible says "When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home."  This contradicts what the same New American Bible says in Luke 2:5 "to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. "

There's a big difference between espoused and betrothed.

es·pouse  (-spouz)
1.
a. To take in marriage; marry.
b. To give (a woman) in marriage.
2. To give one's loyalty or support to (a cause, for example); adopt.

be·trothed
–adjective
1.
engaged to be married: She is betrothed to that young lieutenant.
–noun
2.
the person to whom one is engaged: He introduced us to his betrothed.

My sentiments exactly.  I cannot rely or put my confidence in what the USCCB "explains" the difference in meaning of betrothed and espoused, especially when there is a blatant contradiction, but mostly that it took 18 years to prepare the NAB, a lot of time to think about the exegetical analysis of the verses.  There is still the problem of using the Protestantized phrase "highly favored daughter" instead of "full of grace" as the true translation of the  Greek kecharitomene which means "favored with grace" or "full of grace."  This is the denial of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.
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#78
(03-08-2011, 10:44 PM)Vincentius Wrote: There is still the problem of using the Protestantized phrase "highly favored daughter" instead of "full of grace" as the true translation of the  Greek kecharitomene which means "favored with grace" or "full of grace."   This is the denial of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

Oh man I didn't realize this.  For Luke 1:28 the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible says,

"And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

For Luke 1:28 the New American (might as well say Protestant) Bible says,

"And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."

This is an utter disgrace.  Shame on the USCCB for allowing this to happen.  And to top it all off the New American Bible is linked to the English part of the Vatican web site.  Luke 1:28 is where the first part of the Hail Mary comes from.  Not only does the New American Bible change "full of grace" to "favored one" it also eliminates "blessed art thou among women."  So what's the next step for the USCCB, are they going to have us say the Hail Mary like this,

Hail Mary,
favored one,
The Lord is with thee.
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen

This is disgusting.  God is no doubt very mad about this. 
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#79
Interesting, I never noticed that before (ie the blessed art thou among women in Luke 1:28). Just scanned a few Bibles and that phrase is only in the Vulgate and DRV. I wonder if it is in the Greek? I always assumed it came strictly from Elizabeth's greeting in Luke 1:42. It's there in both the NAB and the DRV.
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#80
(03-10-2011, 05:57 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Interesting, I never noticed that before (ie the blessed art thou among women in Luke 1:28). Just scanned a few Bibles and that phrase is only in the Vulgate and DRV. I wonder if it is in the Greek? I always assumed it came strictly from Elizabeth's greeting in Luke 1:42. It's there in both the NAB and the DRV.

Actually, even the heretic Wycliffe translated it correctly:

Wycliffes Bible Wrote:And the aungel entride to hir, and seide, Heil, ful of grace; the Lord be with thee; blessid be thou among wymmen.
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