It's strange that Pius VI didn't have more to say about the American Revolution
#1
I find the general lack of comment from the Pope at the time of the American Revolution, Pius VI, to be surprising. Was it because the new American State was not considered to be significant, or that Great Britain had at that time apostasized from the faith and therefore was viewed as getting its just rewards? I've read that the Popes of 100+ years ago concerned themselves much more with the happenings in Europe than elsewhere, but still, it couldn't have been lost on all of the Catholic hierarchy of 1776 what this new nation might represent to the faith further down the road.   

I tried to research Pius VI and the American Revolution on the internet but all I find is that he released the American Catholic clergy from British control and I don't find much social comentary from him on this momentous event.  ???
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#2
The only Pope I really know of that talked about America was Leo XIII and he praised the US.
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#3
Yes, from what I understand, the pope praised the American church, I forget why, but then Americanism happened, and a future pope wrote on the badness of Americanism by name.
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#4
Leo XIII was the same Pope who praised America and wrote an encyclical against Americanism.

Anyway, Pius VI was on very good terms with George III--the Pope received family of the king in Rome and gave his blessing for Catholics to obey him and to join the British army. He also generally favored monarchy. All of this makes it odd that he would recognize the US pretty much immediately. I wonder if there was any influence from the Carrolls who supported independence (one was a signer of the Declaration and the other was the first American bishop--granted he was elected by local clergy, but Pope Pius VI confirmed his election). He was also busy dealing with the Jansenists and the rise of the Liberalism in France in the 1780s.
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#5
(03-04-2011, 11:47 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Leo XIII was the same Pope who praised America and wrote an encyclical against Americanism.

Anyway, Pius VI was on very good terms with George III--the Pope received family of the king in Rome and gave his blessing for Catholics to obey him and to join the British army. He also generally favored monarchy. All of this makes it odd that he would recognize the US pretty much immediately. I wonder if there was any influence from the Carrolls who supported independence (one was a signer of the Declaration and the other was the first American bishop--granted he was elected by local clergy, but Pope Pius VI confirmed his election). He was also busy dealing with the Jansenists and the rise of the Liberalism in France in the 1780s.

1) King George III was a great and wonderful man, so it isn't surprising that he was on good terms with Pius VI

2) I think the American Revolution had no real direct significance for the Catholic faith.  What had formerly been the British polity split and the Anglo-Americans went on ruling themselves.  Once Britain signed the peace treaty with the 13 colonies, their independence and legitimacy wasn't controversial.
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#6
Quote:Coined in the nineteenth century, in Roman Catholic use the term Americanism referred to a group of related heresies which were defined as the endorsement of the separation of church and state.  It was thought that these doctrines were held by and taught by many members of the Catholic hierarchy in the United States of America in the 1890s.
From Wiki.

Just as a heads up. 
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#7
(03-05-2011, 12:24 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
Quote:Coined in the nineteenth century, in Roman Catholic use the term Americanism referred to a group of related heresies which were defined as the endorsement of the separation of church and state.  It was thought that these doctrines were held by and taught by many members of the Catholic hierarchy in the United States of America in the 1890s.
From Wiki.

Just as a heads up. 

Indeed. There's render to Caesar, etc., and then a fanatical abolition of any ties between the government and the Church. It's like how if any bishop speaks out against say abortion, liberals say that he needs to "get out of politics because there's separation of church and state" when he really was just speaking his opinion, guaranteed to him in the Constitution. That's Americanism, imo.
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#8
(03-05-2011, 12:24 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
Quote:Coined in the nineteenth century, in Roman Catholic use the term Americanism referred to a group of related heresies which were defined as the endorsement of the separation of church and state.  It was thought that these doctrines were held by and taught by many members of the Catholic hierarchy in the United States of America in the 1890s.
From Wiki.

Just as a heads up. 

There was a great thread on FE a couple months back about Americanism.  The point of the heresy was that while things like freedom of religion protected Catholics in America from the fundamentally protestant attitude of the United States, it would be wrong to promote freedom of religion in countries that were correctly ordered as subjects of Christ the King in the Catholic Church.

So L13 liked America, but thought it would be a bad model for other countries.
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#9
(03-04-2011, 11:47 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Leo XIII was the same Pope who praised America and wrote an encyclical against Americanism.

Anyway, Pius VI was on very good terms with George III--the Pope received family of the king in Rome and gave his blessing for Catholics to obey him and to join the British army. He also generally favored monarchy. All of this makes it odd that he would recognize the US pretty much immediately. I wonder if there was any influence from the Carrolls who supported independence (one was a signer of the Declaration and the other was the first American bishop--granted he was elected by local clergy, but Pope Pius VI confirmed his election). He was also busy dealing with the Jansenists and the rise of the Liberalism in France in the 1780s.

And don't forget that Catholic France was allied with the rebels.
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