Sorrowful Mysteries- a study
#1
Last week my husband and I got to talking about what we meditate on particularly during each mystery of the rosary. I found it very helpful. I thought that maybe we could do this here. The Sorrowful seems most appropriate sine it is Lent. I especially find information on the medical aspect of what actually happened helps me understand the brutality of it all.

I could start a new thread for each decade. How about we start with the Agony in the Garden. If there are a lot of people into this we can continue.

Agony in the Garden

What was so bad about this part of the Passion? Was it being so utterly alone? The fear of knowing what was about to happen? Betrayal? Leaving His Holy Mother? I did a brief search about sweating blood, which we are told Christ did-

Dr. Frederick Zugibe, a forensic expert from New York said hematidrosis is one extreme side effects of fight or flight response. Most occur when a person experiences stress anxiety or fear which is very deep, accordingt to Howstuffworks

In addition, there is also another theory that says that extreme anxiety or fear experienced by a person causes the release of a chemical that can break the capillaries in the sweat glands. As a result there is a small amount of bleeding so that the sweat comes out along with blood.
Dr. Zugibe said some cases associated with hematidrosis reportedly occurred when a person experiences fear of punishment before execution and there are cases also due to fear of storms while sailing.





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#2
(03-30-2011, 06:54 PM)verenaerin Wrote: Agony in the Garden

What was so bad about this part of the Passion? Was it being so utterly alone? The fear of knowing what was about to happen? Betrayal? Leaving His Holy Mother? I did a brief search about sweating blood, which we are told Christ did-
I think that the greatest part of the Agony was the knowledge of the future. Despite all Jesus did, not all would be saved. This would explain his prayers and his words before and after that event.

Quote:Dr. Frederick Zugibe, a forensic expert from New York said hematidrosis is one extreme side effects of fight or flight response. Most occur when a person experiences stress anxiety or fear which is very deep, accordingt to Howstuffworks
I do not think it was based on such a fear, as he shows no fear or anxiety at any time.

Quote:Dr. Zugibe said some cases associated with hematidrosis reportedly occurred when a person experiences fear of punishment before execution and there are cases also due to fear of storms while sailing.

I think the stress was not based on the punishment his body was about to suffer, but for the extreme love and justice of God.

http://www.sacredheart.com/The_Mystical_...ter_04.htm

Mystical City of God Wrote:Our Savior pursued his way across the torrent of Cedron (John 18, 1) to mount Olivet and entered the garden of Gethsemani. Then He said to all the Apostles: "Wait for Me, and seat yourselves here while I go a short distance from here to pray (Matth. 26, 36); do you also pray, in order that you may not enter into temptation" (Luke 22, 40). The divine Master gave them advice, in order that they might be firm in the temptations, of which He had spoken to them at the Supper: that all of them should be scandalized on account of what they should see Him suffer that night, that Satan would assail them to sift and stir them up by his false suggestions; for the Pastor (as prophesied) was to be illtreated and wounded and the sheep were to be dispersed (Zach. 13, 7). Then the Master of life, leaving the band of eight Apostles at that place and taking with Him saint Peter, saint John, and saint James, retired to another place, where they could neither be seen nor heard by the rest (Mark 14, 33). Being with the three Apostles He raised his eyes up to the eternal Father confessing and praising Him as was his custom; while interiorly He prayed in fulfillment of the prophecy of Zacharias, permitting death to approach the most innocent of men and commanding the sword of divine justice to be unsheathed over the Shepherd and descend upon the Godman with all its deathly force. In this prayer Christ our Lord offered Himself anew to the eternal Father in satisfaction of his justice for the rescue of the human race; and He gave consent, that all the torments of his Passion and Death be let loose over that part of his human being, which was capable of suffering. From that moment He suspended and strained whatever consolation or relief would otherwise overflow from the impassable to the passable part of his being, so that in this dereliction his passion and sufferings might reach the highest degree possible. The eternal Father granted these petitions and approved this total sacrifice of the sacred humanity.

This prayer was as it were the floodgate through which the rivers of his suffering were to find entrance like the resistless onslaught of the ocean, as was foretold by David (Ps. 68, 2). And immediately He began to be sorrowful and feel the anguish of his soul and therefore said to the Apostles: "My soul is sorrowful unto death" (Mark 14, 34).

He threw himself with his divine face upon the ground and prayed to the eternal Father: "Father, if it is possible, let this chalice pass from Me" (Matth. 24, 38). This prayer Christ our Lord uttered, though He had come down from heaven with the express purpose of really suffering and dying for men; though He had counted as naught the shame of his Passion, had willingly embraced it and rejected all human consolation; though He was hastening with most ardent love into the jaws of death, to affronts, sorrows and afflictions; though He had set such a high price upon men, that He determined to redeem them at the shedding of his life-blood. Since by virtue of his divine and human wisdom and his inextinguishable love He had shown Himself so superior to the natural fear of death, that it seems this petition did not arise from any motive solely coming from Himself. That this was so in fact, was made known to me in the light which was vouchsafed me concerning the mysteries contained in this prayer of the Savior.

This agony of Christ our Savior grew in proportion to the greatness of his charity and the certainty of his knowledge, that men would persist in neglecting to profit by his Passion and Death (Luke 22, 44). His agony increased to such an extent, that great drops of bloody sweat were pressed from Him, which flowed to the very earth. Although this prayer was uttered subject to a condition and failed in regard to the reprobate who fell under this condition; yet He gained thereby a greater abundance and secured a greater frequency of favors for mortals. Through it the blessings were multiplied for those who placed no obstacles, the fruits of the Redemption were applied to the saints and to the just more abundantly, and many gifts and graces, of which the reprobates made themselves unworthy, were diverted to the elect. The human will of Christ, conforming itself to that of the Divinity, then accepted suffering for each respectively: for the reprobate, as sufficient to procure them the necessary help, if they would make use of its merits, and for the predestined, as an efficacious means, of which they would avail themselves to secure their salvation by co-operating with grace. Thus was set in order, and as it were realized, the salvation of the mystical body of his holy Church, of which Christ the Lord was the Creator and Head.
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#3

(03-30-2011, 06:54 PM)verenaerin Wrote: Agony in the Garden

What was so bad about this part of the Passion? Was it being so utterly alone? The fear of knowing what was about to happen? Betrayal? Leaving His Holy Mother? I did a brief search about sweating blood, which we are told Christ did-
rosarium Wrote:I think that the greatest part of the Agony was the knowledge of the future. Despite all Jesus did, not all would be saved. This would explain his prayers and his words before and after that event.

I agree, perhaps it was the reason He cried out a few minutes before He died:  "My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me?" -- seeing that in spite of His terrible Passion, two thirds of humanity and more will be lost.

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#4
(03-30-2011, 07:04 PM)Rosarium Wrote: I do not think it was based on such a fear, as he shows no fear or anxiety at any time.

Not true:
Matt 14:32-34 Wrote:[32] And they came to a farm called Gethsemani. And he saith to his disciples: Sit you here, while I pray. [33] And he taketh Peter and James and John with him; and he began to fear and to be heavy. [34] And he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death; stay you here, and watch.

Christ took on fear as He took on sorrow: human reactions to evil (moral or physical).  Fear is not always sinful.

Here's what St. Thomas says:

St. Thomas Aquinas S.T. III Q15 A 7 Wrote:Article 7. Whether there was fear in Christ?

Objection 1. It would seem that there was no fear in Christ. For it is written (Proverbs 28:1): "The just, bold as a lion, shall be without dread." But Christ was most just. Therefore there was no fear in Christ.

Objection 2. Further, Hilary says (De Trin. x): "I ask those who think thus, does it stand to reason that He should dread to die, Who by expelling all dread of death from the Apostles, encouraged them to the glory of martyrdom?" Therefore it is unreasonable that there should be fear in Christ.

Objection 3. Further, fear seems only to regard what a man cannot avoid. Now Christ could have avoided both the evil of punishment which He endured, and the evil of fault which befell others. Therefore there was no fear in Christ.

On the contrary, It is written (Mark 14:33): Jesus "began to fear and to be heavy."

I answer that, As sorrow is caused by the apprehension of a present evil, so also is fear caused by the apprehension of a future evil. Now the apprehension of a future evil, if the evil be quite certain, does not arouse fear. Hence the Philosopher says (Rhet. ii, 5) that we do not fear a thing unless there is some hope of avoiding it. For when there is no hope of avoiding it the evil is considered present, and thus it causes sorrow rather than fear. Hence fear may be considered in two ways. First, inasmuch as the sensitive appetite naturally shrinks from bodily hurt, by sorrow if it is present, and by fear if it is future; and thus fear was in Christ, even as sorrow. Secondly, fear may be considered in the uncertainty of the future event, as when at night we are frightened at a sound, not knowing what it is; and in this way there was no fear in Christ, as Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iii, 23).

Reply to Objection 1. The just man is said to be "without dread," in so far as dread implies a perfect passion drawing man from what reason dictates. And thus fear was not in Christ, but only as a propassion. Hence it is said (Mark 14:33) that Jesus "began to fear and to be heavy," with a propassion, as Jerome expounds (Matthew 26:37).

Reply to Objection 2. Hilary excludes fear from Christ in the same way that he excludes sorrow, i.e. as regards the necessity of fearing. And yet to show the reality of His human nature, He voluntarily assumed fear, even as sorrow.

Reply to Objection 3. Although Christ could have avoided future evils by the power of His Godhead, yet they were unavoidable, or not easily avoidable by the weakness of the flesh.
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