5th Marian Dogma/Petition
#11
(04-04-2011, 05:19 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(04-04-2011, 05:16 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-04-2011, 05:10 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Internet petitions and polls have no value.

If they did, it would be inappropriate for matters of the faith.

Why?

Why do Internet petitions and polls have no value? That is reality. Clicking is easy, but it makes no difference except in satisfying one's personal urge to do something.

No easier (at least to me) than signing my name on a hardcopy petition.
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#12
(04-04-2011, 05:16 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-04-2011, 05:10 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Internet petitions and polls have no value.

If they did, it would be inappropriate for matters of the faith.

Why?

CIC, 1983 Wrote:Canon 212, §2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.

My own opinion is that is done through authentic discourse with those in authority rather than polls.

Also, in this particular case, dogma is not something we make our needs known about; that is something that is handed down to us and we submit to.  Even if one disagrees with that, in the final analysis God is in charge of Dogma, and the way to make our needs known to Him is through prayer.  He's not going to read an internet petition.  ;)

I know I'm not describing the nuance clearly (I need coffee), but hopefully if you think about it, it will make sense.
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#13
(04-04-2011, 05:00 PM)Resurrexi Wrote:
(04-04-2011, 04:57 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(04-03-2011, 08:15 PM)All For The Immaculate Wrote: Ave Maria!

  This petition is charitably being collected by Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici who are working very hard to collect millions of petitions begging the Holy Father to proclaim our most Holy and Blessed Mother Mary, the Mediatrix of all graces, Co-Redemptrix and Advocate. 

  During this holy season, please take a few moments to sign the petition, won't you?  For the love of our Mamma...

  The Petition can be signed by clicking the link below:

  http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/index.php?option=com_breezingforms&view=form&Itemid=602

  There is a prayer that may be said daily, which is on the main page of the site to Our Lady of All Nations.

  Pax et Bonum! 

Dogmas are proclaimed when there is a heresy apparent that would be silenced by proclaiming a dogma.  It is inappropriate to petition for a dogmatic proclamation when there is no opposing heresy to warrant it.

There was no opposition to the Assumption when it was defined.

I actually do not think that the Co-Redemptrix should be defined as dogma, though.

There probably was no need to define it then.  Traditionally, dogmas weren't defined until it became necessary to do so to officially condemn a heresy.  Look at the first 7 or 8 ecumenical councils.
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#14
Ave Maria!

If one does not wish to petition online, a hardcopy can be sent directly to the Holy Father or mailed to Vox Populis and they will mail it for you. 

The hardcopy petition can be filled here:

http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=88&Itemid=563

What canon law says about the right and duty to petition see article, Peace Is On Its Way Through Her:

http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=132&Itemid=

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#15
Historically, the Church has given a definitive judgement on doctrinal issues when there is a need, usually to settle a dispute, but also for other reasons. Petitions from the faithful are not unheard of.  See here:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12DEIPA.HTM

In my opinion, I think the term co-redemptrix tends to be confusing and Mary's advocacy is not in doubt so definitions of those terms are unnicessary, but it seems to me the fact that the Blessed Virgin is Mediatrix of all graces has been commonly held and taught by the Fathers (especially in the East) and the Latin doctors as well as by Popes and Councils, yet is one of those truths primed to be sacrificed on the altars of irenicism and ignorance, if it hasn't already. Reaffirmation in a solemn way could be appropriate, IMO.
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#16
(04-04-2011, 05:24 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: My own opinion is that is done through authentic discourse with those in authority rather than polls.

Of course, even an online petition is not a poll. From the Decree proclaiming the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception:

Deiparae Virginis Mariae Wrote:2. And so, because love when it is true and deeply felt tends of its own nature to manifest itself through ever renewed demonstrations, the faithful have vied with one another all through the centuries in expressing at all times their ardent piety toward the Queen of Heaven. In our opinion, this is the reason why, for a long time past, numerous petitions (those received from 1849 to 1940 have been gathered in two volumes which, accompanied with suitable comments, have been recently printed), from cardinals, patriarchs, archbishops, bishops, priests, religious of both sexes, associations, universities and innumerable private persons have reached the Holy See, all begging that the bodily Assumption into heaven of the Blessed Virgin should be defined and proclaimed as a dogma of faith. And certainly no one is unaware of the fact that this was fervently requested by almost two hundred fathers in the Vatican Council.

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#17
Not sure what the obsession is here on either side.

Co-Redemptrix, Advocate and Mediatrix is already doctrine so Catholics are bound to believe it. Whether it's formally defined is the question.
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#18
Ave Maria!

This is an incredible article regarding St. Padre Pio and the Immaculate as Co-Redemptrix by Fr. Stefano Manelli F.I.

http://www.fifthmariandogma.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=263:padre-pio-and-the-mother-co-redemptrix&catid=110:saints-and-sensus-fidelium&Itemid=580

Just brilliant!
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