Corsets?
#41
This debate is going to get tedious very quickly so I'm backing out. I never said that corseting doesn't shape the ribcage and displace organs but that it does not do so permanently. There is certainly some persistence of the effects but by the accounts of most contemporaneous tightlacers and general corset wearers (who were fiercely in favor of it) these were all really unsatisfactory. The internal organs as well as the rib cage sprang back to its normal position after a month without lacing. Withdrawal from lacing did tend to cause some rather intense discomfort, indigestion, and other problems at first however.

Edited to add: I'm not even in favor of waist training--though I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I support corset wearing only insomuch as it gives necessary structure to outer garments whether there is any artificial waist suppression incorporated in their design or not. If a woman is wearing a woolen body coat, on the other hand, sufficient structure to highlight a flattering drop can be incorporated in the coat itself.
Reply
#42
(04-13-2011, 07:51 AM)verenaerin Wrote:Women have been wearing high heel shoes forever. I don't think anyone here is going to say how amazingly comfortable they are, let alone practical.

I agree that women as a whole don't care about practicality, but high heels have only been normal for western women (besides the nobility) since the late 1800's. High heels were actually more popular with men before then, either as a fashion accessory for the upper crust (especially French), or for work purposes like riding boots.
Reply
#43
You wouldn't catch me dead or alive in a corset, and if I ever have kids I'd forbid my daughter to wear one. They don't do anyone any favours, healthwise, over the short term or the long term. I'm very familiar with all of the arguments, pro and con, from a historical standpoint... in school I did a lot of reading and studying on femininity in the 19th and 20th centuries, and what I read and saw stuck with me for good, like Vox's article/diagrams that Quis posted. I can't tell you how strongly I come out against corsets.

Then again, I'm the woman who  WILL wear high heels under duress  ;) (ie, a wedding) but any higher than 2 or 3 inches and I will be a tripping and FALLING woman wearing high heels. And forget dancing in them. Oh goodness. I'm lucky if I can manage to dance in normal shoes.... and most of the time, I can't.  :laughing:
Reply
#44
(04-13-2011, 11:53 AM)laurabookworm Wrote: You wouldn't catch me dead or alive in a corset, and if I ever have kids I'd forbid my daughter to wear one. They don't do anyone any favours, healthwise, over the short term or the long term. I'm very familiar with all of the arguments, pro and con, from a historical standpoint... in school I did a lot of reading and studying on femininity in the 19th and 20th centuries, and what I read and saw stuck with me for good, like Vox's article/diagrams that Quis posted. I can't tell you how strongly I come out against corsets.

Then again, I'm the woman who  WILL wear high heels under duress  ;) (ie, a wedding) but any higher than 2 or 3 inches and I will be a tripping and FALLING woman wearing high heels. And forget dancing in them. Oh goodness. I'm lucky if I can manage to dance in normal shoes.... and most of the time, I can't.  :laughing:

2 1/2 inches is my limit. I refuse a higher heel, no matter how cute the shoes are. But being on the tall side, that's enough.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
Reply
#45
to the PP who asked- yes, the regency-era is when Jane Austin books take place

high heels- LOVE them!  And yes, they are comfy.  I can sprint in 3" heels (had to do it more than once when I was teaching at an inner-city school).  I live in my 5" boots.  Only reason I don't wear them at the hospital is that the lab won't let me.
Reply
#46
(04-13-2011, 07:51 AM)verenaerin Wrote:Women have been wearing high heel shoes forever. I don't think anyone here is going to say how amazingly comfortable they are, let alone practical. I hardly see my rejection of corsets modern, and I do wear veils at Mass. The purpose of wearing them is to achieve a certain shape. A shape I do not even closely have. And for what purpose? Fashion. If you like them, that's great. But please do not assume I am some bra burning feminist because I reject them.

I don't think any one here is a feminist. But, I do perceive here the very modern attitude of Aren't We Glad We Are So Enlightened Now, which leads to quick condemnation of what our ancestors did. Many women wore corsets and managed to live to old age. But from some of the comments here, you'd think all women wore tightly laced corsets, so they died.
The Pleasant Times Wrote:[The Victorians] lived miserable lives and died before they even knew there was anything to smile about.

In the Victorian times, everyone wore corsets, and died from trying to be so skinny. They had their ribs removed so that they could tie their corsets tighter. Women were oppressed, and compressed, for they wore corsets because they were not valued by men unless they were really, really skinny. They wore heavy clothing, yards and yards and pounds and pounds of heavy velvet material that made them walk very slowly. They gathered a lot of dirt with their long dresses, and so their fancy dresses were actually always very dirty. The women died from being run over by buggies because they could not make haste in their heavy clothing to get out of the way in time. In those days the streets were all mud, and the Women and children got stuck in the mud and died.

In those days, there were no doctors, so everyone died from diseases. There was no medical help available, and people were laying around dying in the streets. Only men were allowed to be doctors; the only option available to Women for a career was to be a prostitute. Only the rich could afford medicine and doctor visits.

Women died in childbirth, and children died at birth. Only the very rich could afford to stay alive. They hired servants to do everything, and many women became maids in rich people's houses, because the only careers open to Women were household help, such as cooks or scullery maids. Women were glad to have those jobs though, because if they stayed home and got married, they knew they would die in childbirth...

(the amazing death rate of Victorians)

It reminded me of that.

The high heels comparison is good. I don't wear high heels, but see I don't go around disparaging women who do, nor do I think that all high heels are invariably uncomfortable and restrictive. The one pair of high heels I own, a 2-inch purple velvet number, are actually, gasp, comfortable. I just don't like wearing them. By the way, wearing high heels forces you into a better posture, since otherwise you lose balance and fall.
Reply
#47
Flat shoes are uncomfortable.
Reply
#48
Corsets...for me, I don't really see the point, since I don't wear the kind of clothes that would require a smaller waist: I'm already built on the small side. Now, something to improve posture, without squeezing my organs out of place and making me shorter of breath than I already am (thanks, humidity), would be appreciated. ;) As for heels, I prefer boots with 1-2.5" heels.  More practical and comfortable, in my experience.
Reply
#49
(04-13-2011, 06:11 PM)m.PR Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 07:51 AM)verenaerin Wrote:Women have been wearing high heel shoes forever. I don't think anyone here is going to say how amazingly comfortable they are, let alone practical. I hardly see my rejection of corsets modern, and I do wear veils at Mass. The purpose of wearing them is to achieve a certain shape. A shape I do not even closely have. And for what purpose? Fashion. If you like them, that's great. But please do not assume I am some bra burning feminist because I reject them.

I don't think any one here is a feminist. But, I do perceive here the very modern attitude of Aren't We Glad We Are So Enlightened Now, which leads to quick condemnation of what our ancestors did. Many women wore corsets and managed to live to old age. But from some of the comments here, you'd think all women wore tightly laced corsets, so they died.
The Pleasant Times Wrote:[The Victorians] lived miserable lives and died before they even knew there was anything to smile about.

In the Victorian times, everyone wore corsets, and died from trying to be so skinny. They had their ribs removed so that they could tie their corsets tighter. Women were oppressed, and compressed, for they wore corsets because they were not valued by men unless they were really, really skinny. They wore heavy clothing, yards and yards and pounds and pounds of heavy velvet material that made them walk very slowly. They gathered a lot of dirt with their long dresses, and so their fancy dresses were actually always very dirty. The women died from being run over by buggies because they could not make haste in their heavy clothing to get out of the way in time. In those days the streets were all mud, and the Women and children got stuck in the mud and died.

In those days, there were no doctors, so everyone died from diseases. There was no medical help available, and people were laying around dying in the streets. Only men were allowed to be doctors; the only option available to Women for a career was to be a prostitute. Only the rich could afford medicine and doctor visits.

Women died in childbirth, and children died at birth. Only the very rich could afford to stay alive. They hired servants to do everything, and many women became maids in rich people's houses, because the only careers open to Women were household help, such as cooks or scullery maids. Women were glad to have those jobs though, because if they stayed home and got married, they knew they would die in childbirth...

(the amazing death rate of Victorians)

It reminded me of that.

The high heels comparison is good. I don't wear high heels, but see I don't go around disparaging women who do, nor do I think that all high heels are invariably uncomfortable and restrictive. The one pair of high heels I own, a 2-inch purple velvet number, are actually, gasp, comfortable. I just don't like wearing them. By the way, wearing high heels forces you into a better posture, since otherwise you lose balance and fall.

Did you happen to read the entire post on "The Pleasant Times" blog? It was written by a person named "Miss. Informed"...that alone should say enough. It is also EXTREMELY slanted and biased one way at times saying that our ancestors 150 years ago didn't have any clothes, borrowed clothes for photographs and the rest of the time ran around naked. The entire post screams "Feministic" in the worst sense of the word. Essentially saying that since everyone from the Victorian era has died then it wasn't a good era to live in. Well, hello, of course everyone from that era has died...they'd be over 100 years old if they were still alive.  Please read articles in full before you post for the benefit of all here.
Reply
#50
Um St.Cecilia, you do know that m.PR was ridiculing The Pleasant Times article, right?
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)