foreplay in the sexual act
#11
(04-13-2011, 06:44 PM)Melkite Wrote: Nah, it only cries out to heaven if two men do it, because the idea of a woman and a man doing it isn't disgusting to most Catholics.

No, it "cries out to heaven" because of Scripture.

It isn't something that Catholics voted on.

And yes, homosexual acts are usually seen with more disgust because they are fundamentally disordered. It is natural to be repulsed by the unnatural.

Men who stimulate themselves to satisfy lust are sending themselves to Hell (note, with full knowledge, intent, and without repentance before death, like all sins). With that in mind, it should be no mystery why acts other than those which are in the proper course of marriage are forbidden. We are not animals.

To prevent this from becoming one of those long, overly detailed sex threads, I'm going to try not to post too much more here. For married people with specific questions, talk to a priest. For unmarried people, it is easy. Don't do anything sexual!
Reply
#12
(04-13-2011, 08:16 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: I would say that oral sex would never be permissible, as it is not for the purpose of procreation.

Not everything has to be pro-creative as long as the conclusion of the act is open to pro-creation.  By your reckoning, sex between sterile people, etc., would never be permissible since they cannot procreate even in a natural ordered act.  That's not the case.  The secondary purpose of marital relations, and also marriage, is a physical expression of love between man and wife.  That suffices to make it licit as long as it remains open to pro-creation.

Go back to SPL's post and read the cites from a moral theology text:

Quote:The intrinsic reason for this (I Cor. vii, 3) is that the conjugal act is not only necessary for the propagation of the human race but also for the fostering of married love.  As often as one of these purposes is desired, the conjugal act is lawful, provided that no other ills or inconveniences ensue.  Consequently the partners in marriage are not obliged to exercise sexual intercourse simply for the sake of procreation.

What is not allowed, ever, is onanism - spilling the seed outside the vagina; proximate danger of pollution (risk spilling the seed) means you shouldn't do anything that has a high risk of that happening even by accident.  If it's begun somewhere else, it needs to finish up in a pro-creative manner.

Reply
#13
Wait so sodomy between two guys cries to heaven for vengeance but not between a woman and a man?  Can I get some details on that?  Why would there be a difference, its an abuse of the sexual faculties and naturally disordered, why should it matter if its between a man and a man or a woman and a man?
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#14
(04-13-2011, 09:03 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Wait so sodomy between two guys cries to heaven for vengeance but not between a woman and a man? 
Do you understand what "cries out to heaven" means and why it is stated in such a way?

Too many times people get involved in discussions when they are unfamiliar with the basics of it.

Quote: Can I get some details on that?  Why would there be a difference, its an abuse of the sexual faculties and naturally disordered, why should it matter if its between a man and a man or a woman and a man?
Sure, it is stated in scripture: http://www.fisheaters.com/lists.html#10

Any discussion about "why" is an attempt to determine why scripture gives them as such.
Reply
#15
(04-13-2011, 08:08 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 06:44 PM)Melkite Wrote: Nah, it only cries out to heaven if two men do it, because the idea of a woman and a man doing it isn't disgusting to most Catholics.

The difference, of course, is that the latter (in your post) doesn't necessarily exclude imperfect sodomy, whereby the reproductive function of the generative faculty can still be accomplished insofar as the completion of the generative faculty is conducive to reproduction. However, the former (in your post) can only be perfect sodomy, whereby the reproductive function of the generative faculties is inevitably frustrated and has no possibility of success.

It is not the intrinsic idea of sodomy that Catholics find so disgusting per se. The sin against nature accomplished by homosexual sodomy via perfect sodomy is what is so disgusting to Catholics.

Exactly.  Most Catholics find two men having sex absolutely intolerable, find twom women having sex a little less intolerable, and for the most part pay lip service to the immorality of a man and a women having deliberately non-procreative sex, because they are being oh so objective about the whole situation.
Reply
#16
(04-13-2011, 09:27 PM)Melkite Wrote: Exactly.  Most Catholics find two men having sex absolutely intolerable, find twom women having sex a little less intolerable, and for the most part pay lip service to the immorality of a man and a women having deliberately non-procreative sex, because they are being oh so objective about the whole situation.

And you are being objective?

Who cares what individual Catholics think? What is important is what is given to us through the Church.
Reply
#17
Yeah Melkite I don't really see how this sort of discussion can end well, if this is your attitude, dude
Reply
#18
(04-13-2011, 08:21 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 06:44 PM)Melkite Wrote: Nah, it only cries out to heaven if two men do it, because the idea of a woman and a man doing it isn't disgusting to most Catholics.

No, it "cries out to heaven" because of Scripture.

It's a literary device, nothing more.  The fact that committing adultery doesn't cry out to heaven but giving an employee too small a paycheck does proves it.  The fact that most Catholics find it convenient to only remember sodomy crying out to heaven but rarely the other three shows that their motives in using the phrase are wrong.
Reply
#19
(04-13-2011, 09:27 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:08 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 06:44 PM)Melkite Wrote: Nah, it only cries out to heaven if two men do it, because the idea of a woman and a man doing it isn't disgusting to most Catholics.

The difference, of course, is that the latter (in your post) doesn't necessarily exclude imperfect sodomy, whereby the reproductive function of the generative faculty can still be accomplished insofar as the completion of the generative faculty is conducive to reproduction. However, the former (in your post) can only be perfect sodomy, whereby the reproductive function of the generative faculties is inevitably frustrated and has no possibility of success.

It is not the intrinsic idea of sodomy that Catholics find so disgusting per se. The sin against nature accomplished by homosexual sodomy via perfect sodomy is what is so disgusting to Catholics.

Exactly. 

If you agreed with my post, you wouldn't have said the rest. The rest of your post has little to do with either your post or mine.

Quote: Most Catholics find two men having sex absolutely intolerable, find twom women having sex a little less intolerable, and for the most part pay lip service to the immorality of a man and a women having deliberately non-procreative sex, because they are being oh so objective about the whole situation.
Reply
#20
(04-13-2011, 09:29 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Yeah Melkite I don't really see how this sort of discussion can end well, if this is your attitude, dude

It never ends well when one side can't be honest about their subjectivity.  Of course this issue is subjective for me too, but at least I don't pretend I'm not being partially subjective.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)