foreplay in the sexual act
#31
(04-13-2011, 09:51 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 09:43 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Maybe I'm alone in finding both equally disgusting in that they serve to satisfy carnal urges and nothing else.   :shrug:

They don't. Intercourse between a male and a female that includes sodomy as a means of progressive stimulation toward vaginal completion has the end of procreation in sight. The alternative does not.

Not necessarily.  But what you're saying is that if it did (lead up to that) its ok?  Or, at least different than perfect sodomy?
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#32
Over/under for thread: 450 posts.

I say over.
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#33
Well, Mithy, I think sodomy is disgusting because it's unpalatable and unhygienic whether a man does it with a man or with a woman.
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#34
(04-13-2011, 10:19 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: Over/under for thread: 450 posts.

I say over.

I am seeing a popular surge of late, in threads devoted to sexuality of various forms. This could be good or bad.  ???
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#35
(04-13-2011, 11:25 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 10:19 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: Over/under for thread: 450 posts.

I say over.

I am seeing a popular surge of late, in threads devoted to sexuality of various forms. This could be good or bad.  ???

That happens here.  I try to keep it appropriate for adult Catholic conversation and relevant to theology.
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#36
(04-13-2011, 09:52 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 09:38 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 09:03 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Wait so sodomy between two guys cries to heaven for vengeance but not between a woman and a man?  Can I get some details on that?  Why would there be a difference, its an abuse of the sexual faculties and naturally disordered, why should it matter if its between a man and a man or a woman and a man?

Imperfect sodomy that is not done to completion does not because it still results in the pro-creative act.  The reason sodomy cries out for vengeance is it destroys the unity of husband and wife, family, etc. in the temporal realm because it reduces sex to being separate from those things.

I suspect that if the OT were written today, birth control would cry out for vengeance as well, for the same reasons.  Maybe even louder.

Remember vengeance has nothing to do with the gravity of the sin in and of itself.  It is asking for Divine Intervention to stop or reduce the occurrence of that sin in the temporal realm.

I'm still confused.  imperfect sodomy is anal sex between a man and a woman and perfect sodomy is between two men?  And you say the difference is that the former still results in the procreative act while the latter has no chance.  Maybe I slept through health class but I didn't think a person could get pregnant through anal sex....?
Yes, imperfect sodomy is unnatural acts between a man and a woman.

No, it has the possibility of leading to the procreative act before completion.  Whereas in perfect sodomy there is no possibility.  Let be blunt:  you start in the anus and finish in the vagina.
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#37
Thank you.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#38
(04-13-2011, 10:25 PM)Satori Wrote: Well, Mithy, I think sodomy is disgusting because it's unpalatable and unhygienic whether a man does it with a man or with a woman.

+1
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#39
(04-13-2011, 09:49 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: Why does it matter whether the seed is sprinkled on the floor (i.e. masturbation) or in a sterile vagina? In either case it is not for procreation, and a waste of seed that could be avoided. For example, a couple who has sex while the woman is pregnant would mean fertility is impossible at that time.

I'm curious about this as well.
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#40
(04-14-2011, 01:42 AM)Dante Alighieri Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 09:49 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: Why does it matter whether the seed is sprinkled on the floor (i.e. masturbation) or in a sterile vagina? In either case it is not for procreation, and a waste of seed that could be avoided. For example, a couple who has sex while the woman is pregnant would mean fertility is impossible at that time.

I'm curious about this as well.

A vagina is not sterile.  A woman or man is sterile.

One of the basics of moral theology is that the moral ends of acts are natural and ordered.  The natural and ordered end of sexual relations is insemination.  We cannot force fertilization to occur, but we can be responsible for ensuring the natural and ordered end of the act whether fertilization is apparently possible or not.

Unlike Monty Python would have people believe, it's not "every sperm is sacred".  I mean, there is loss of seed even when the act is done licitly and naturally.  As is true with many sins, it is the nature and end of the action that goes to its sinfulness.
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