Is Rap and Metal compatible with being Catholic?
#31
(04-13-2011, 08:54 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
INP Wrote:In my opinion, there is more to it than just the lyrics. The lyrical medium is very significant.

Could you expand on this?  For example are you talking about a music group, say some death metal "Christian" band that has objectively angry yells screaming and droning GOD IS GOOOOOOOD or....  Yeah, could you expand on that a little?  I'm interested.

By "lyrical medium" I mean the musical foundation that is the means by which the lyrics are delivered. The style in which the lyrics are delivered (the "vocals") is usually in conformity with and proceeds from the medium.
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#32
For the record, while this thread is still short, I think that rap and metal are actually the least concern. It is the pervading and popular pop music and hip-hop and whatever is so common today.

A person will shudder at the slightest metal chord, and say it is "violent" and "hard to understand" and then they will switch to a song about the most hideous violations of God's law because it is more appealing.

(04-13-2011, 08:40 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: Rap and Metal are not evil essentially. They are evil when the music promotes evil acts.

Or thoughts.

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#33
(04-13-2011, 09:03 PM)Rosarium Wrote: For the record, while this thread is still short, I think that rap and metal are actually the least concern. It is the pervading and popular pop music and hip-hop and whatever is so common today.

A person will shudder at the slightest metal chord, and say it is "violent" and "hard to understand" and then they will switch to a song about the most hideous violations of God's law because it is more appealing.

(04-13-2011, 08:40 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: Rap and Metal are not evil essentially. They are evil when the music promotes evil acts.

Or thoughts.

Tangible or intangible acts, yes.
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#34
(04-13-2011, 08:50 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:45 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:42 PM)Lavalliere Wrote: Maybe the question that needs to be asked is whether it is compatible with developing an interior life, and the answer is a resounding NO!

I disagree.  Music can be a great distraction

That is part of the problem.

Catholics are allowed some secular recreation.
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#35
(04-13-2011, 09:00 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:57 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Presupposing the music is healthy, which I am because I'm a hip hop fan and have a fair collection of hip hop that doesn't mention promiscuity sex drugs guns or violence then I don't see the problem.  No different than listening to any other objectively neutral form  of music- provided its objectively neutral.  I'm not arguing on behalf of obscene music.

What is "obscene"?

That question seems loaded in order to make a point through my answer.  Perhaps I'm paranoid.  

I refer to music that condones immoral behavior, encourages it, depicts it realistically, purposefully and with malicious intent (listed as so to not let all satire fall under the blanket of obscene or immoral) or otherwise provokes obscene thoughts or feelings out of person.  The latter is difficult to judge but there are some objective standards that can be claimed such as a song that might be all about killing a person or raping someone.

Does that answer your question?
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#36
(04-13-2011, 08:53 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:46 PM)alegare21 Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:17 PM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: I mean both secular rap & metal AND religious Rap and metal. 

Issue 1: As for secular Rap and Metal:  How does one avoid imbibe or absorbing the lyrics; one often does subconsciously or even without realising it?

How do you avoid absorbing the lyrics? Well if I hear a rap song that is saying stuff about going out and having sex with random girls, I know that action is sinful so I don't do it. And I wouldn't worry about subconsciously absorbing the bad lyrics.


Why would a person who truly loves God take pleasure in something that so heartily offends Him?

Quote:If your morals are in check, your actions won't change. And if all else fails...pray a rosary?

That is known as presumption.



I don't really listen to the lyrics much at all. I listen to the beat. Is that offensive to God?
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#37
For example, consider (more for consideration than conversation) this song, "Lady in Black".

Here are the lyrics:
Quote:She came to me one morning
One lonely Sunday morning
Her long hair flowing
In the midwinter wind
I know not how she found me
For in darkness I was walking
And destruction lay around me
From a fight I could not win
Ah ah ah...

She asked me name my foe then
I said the need within some men
To fight and kill their brothers
Without thought of love or God
And I begged her give me horses
To trample down my enemy
So eager was my passion
To devour this waste of life
Ah ah ah...

But she would not think of battle that
REDUCES men to animals
So easy to begin
And then impossible to end
For she, the mother of all men
had counselled me so wisely then
I feared to walk alone again
And asked if she would stay
Ah ah ah...

Oh lady lend your hand I cried
And let me rest here at your side
Have faith and trust
In me she said
And filled my heart with life
There is no strength in numbers
Have no such misconception
But when you need me
Be assured I won't be far away
Ah ah ah...

Thus having spoke she turned away
And though I found no words to say
I stood and watched until I saw
Her black cloak disappear
My labor is no easier
But now I know I'm not alone
I find new heart each time
I think upon that windy day
And if one day she comes to you
Drink deeply from her words so wise
Take courage from her
As your prize
And say hello from me
Ah ah ah...

I don't know the specific background of the song. I think it is a song about an idea, not a woman.

Here is the original:



Here is a cover in (well, compared to the original, listen for at least 2 minutes) a different style:



Here is another cover, in a different style:



Now, to consider the issues discussed above after listening to these songs. Yes, they are all the same lyrics, so in that sense, they are all the same. If the lyrics are inappropriate, then they are always inappropriate. Now, the styles are different and body and mind may react differently to them.

The consideration of "is it sinful" is rather simple. If one is troubled by it at all, then do not try to justify listening. There is no reason to listen to them and refraining from indulging in satisfying whatever desire of the flesh they do is a good thing.

Also, if one chooses not to listen to certain things, then do not try to convince that person otherwise.

Now the last consideration is what effects does the music have on the body because of how they are played. For that, I do not know.

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#38
(04-13-2011, 08:57 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:50 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:45 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:42 PM)Lavalliere Wrote: Maybe the question that needs to be asked is whether it is compatible with developing an interior life, and the answer is a resounding NO!

I disagree.  Music can be a great distraction

That is part of the problem.

Quote: and a creative outlet

Creativity is only good if it is ordered to a good end. Not all creativity is good.

Quote: and if it isn't unhealthy it can have a positive impact on person.

Yes, but it's unhealthiness is the very thing in question.

Presupposing the music is healthy

You are using "music" to refer to lyrics alone. But music is more than only lyrics. "Music" is much more broad and is usually used to denote the tonal and rhythmic qualities of instruments (which can include the voice, but is not the same as the meaning of the lyrics). So, saying the music is healthy is not referring to lyrics so much as it is to the tonal and rhythmic qualities of sound-producing instruments.

Quote:, which I am because I'm a hip hop fan and have a fair collection of hip hop that doesn't mention promiscuity sex drugs guns or violence then I don't see the problem.  No different than listening to any other objectively neutral form  of music

Objectively neutral in reference to its use or its nature? Something that is objectively neutral by its nature can be used to further either a good end or a bad end: the former tends to the glory of God; the latter tends toward the glory of self.

ETA: Recreation should be done for the glory of God rather than for the glory of self.
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#39
(04-13-2011, 09:07 PM)piabee Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:50 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:45 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:42 PM)Lavalliere Wrote: Maybe the question that needs to be asked is whether it is compatible with developing an interior life, and the answer is a resounding NO!

I disagree.  Music can be a great distraction

That is part of the problem.

Catholics are allowed some secular recreation.

Of course, provided that it does not not stall spiritual progress.
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#40
(04-13-2011, 09:12 PM)alegare21 Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:53 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:46 PM)alegare21 Wrote:
(04-13-2011, 08:17 PM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: I mean both secular rap & metal AND religious Rap and metal. 

Issue 1: As for secular Rap and Metal:  How does one avoid imbibe or absorbing the lyrics; one often does subconsciously or even without realising it?

How do you avoid absorbing the lyrics? Well if I hear a rap song that is saying stuff about going out and having sex with random girls, I know that action is sinful so I don't do it. And I wouldn't worry about subconsciously absorbing the bad lyrics.


Why would a person who truly loves God take pleasure in something that so heartily offends Him?

Quote:If your morals are in check, your actions won't change. And if all else fails...pray a rosary?

That is known as presumption.




I don't really listen to the lyrics much at all. I listen to the beat. Is that offensive to God?

I guess it depends on how awful the lyrics are.  You can't completely ignore them.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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