Wooooow....Shea goes after Voris
#11
The "professional Catholics" that the Holy Father warned about are starting to feel the pinch.

It really ticks me off when I read people complain not about content but about style.

Criticize Voris' content, not if he is insentive or boring or cranky....

Just more evidence of the influence of modernism putting feelings over reason.
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#12
Really, the Neo-Catholic apologetics thing is like a club at this point.  They seem to believe they have a monopoly on the view of the Church, and they act as if they're speaking for Rome.  You can go to any Neo-Catholic apologetics blog or website and see links back and forth to the same blogs, the same ads for the same books running, etc.  I've said this before a little bit, but I'll say it again now:  Neo-Catholic apologetics is more about marketing their vision for the Church than actual apologetics.  Actual apologetics is easy: regurgitate the Catechism (Roman in my case, but even the CCC), regurgitate the Faith, defend the Faith. 

Neo-Catholic apologetics has really turned into a Catholic marketing company and the biggest problem is they're marketing their vision for the Church, not the Church as it has stood for thousands of years.  At the root of this I see the influence of Evangelical Protestantism, but maybe it's not - maybe it's human tendency?

I hate to agree with you on this topic Gerard, but yeah, some days it seems like what they're really doing is protecting their market share.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone if his parish on Sunday is doing crazy stuff, find a different parish - Voris would probably even tell him to go to a different NO parish so there's not even the "trads are bad" spin.

It seems like common sense to me, actually.  Hear a heresy - walk out.  There is no good reason to lambaste this.

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#13
I read the entire thread of comments on Shea's blog and it was interesting to read people who are defending Voris.  One even pointed out that Mother Angelica used to tell people to "shake the dust off" their feet if they are hearing heresy and find a new parish.

This is going to wind up with the Neo-Catholics twisting in the wind like they wound up with Summorum Pontificum's clarification on the abrogation of the TLM. 
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#14
This is what I wrote about Shea and his reaction to the TLM.  Shea is not Catholic.

A Note on Our "Catholic" Brother

Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificum

The Holy Father's Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificum, as expected, has been received with great alacrity and positively by those who long awaited the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass codified by Pope St. Pius V.

Also, as expected, the reactionaries (who hold that the Catholic Church was established by decree of the Second Vatican Council in 1965), have had and are still having their field day in decrying -- to say the least, criticizing -- the mind and motive of Benedict XVI.

Among these reactionaries and revisionists are neo-Catholics who are converts from evangelical and fundamental Protestantism, who, it seems, have not divested themselves of their protestant baggage and have completely embraced the Catholic ethos, but have brought their excess baggage along with them after crossing the Tiber. Now that they are "firmly entrenched" and have become bona fide citizens of the City of God, they believe that it is incumbent upon themselves to arrogate the appellation, "Catholic Apologist," and thus have out forward their interpretation of what Catholicism is.

Notorious among these neo-Catholics is Mark Shea, who has gone as far as insulting faithful Catholics (who he labels as "those traditionalists") who are moving in droves to the "restored" ancient Liturgy of the Latin Church. Without understanding what the Immemorial Mass is (described by Fr. Faber as "The most beautiful thing this side of Heaven"), Shea has gone even to the point of alluding to a fixation one may have for shoes (!) that a Catholic looks to the liturgy of the Mass.

Is Mark Shea a Catholic, or does he have a peculiar brand of Catholicism? If one reads what he wrote in the article, "Some Thoughts on Motu Proprio Man ia," one would come out believing Shea does not know Church history (a commonality of Protestants). "To be deep in history is to ceased being a Protestant," as Ven. John Cardinal Newman once posited.

To the reference of "shoes," he says, "The point of shoes is not to notice them, but to walk in them. Shoes you constantly notice are Bad Shoes. Liturgy you focus on is liturgy that's not doing its job, which is to refer us to God, not to itself." Mark Shea has got it backwards. The N.O. is all about celebrating "man made god," feel good about oneself, meet to socialize within the Liturgy itself.

In the defense of the Novus Ordo Missae we always find it amusing to hear the platitude, "I'm not like the others, I attend a reverent Novus Ordo Mass" -- something which is getting rarer and rarer to find these days.

Shea is still inprisoned in the cell of his protestant background, and is yet to become fully Catholic. We pray that this should be forthcoming very soon. He hasn't completely crossed the Tiber. Can he swim, or is the current too strong?
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#15
I posted respectfully on Mr Shea's blog; under the comments. I tried to be civil and respectful.

Here is what I wrote:

Quote:I see nothing wrong with what Mr Voris has said. He is encouraging, essentially thus: "If you hear your priest preaching heresy, then respectfully, shake the dust off your feet, and leave."

I see no real quarrel that you (Mr Shea) ought to have with Mr Voris. You are seeing an obstacle or problem where none exists.  It seems a rather, imaginary quarrel, one should think.  He is not advocating schism, heresy, or trying to usurp (or portend to usurp) the role of the episcopate. That is just rubbish and pure nonsense!

It is a sin of scandal to put one's soul in danger of heresy and others. There is no good reason to support heretical prelates.  Yes, one ought to strive to admonish, privately heretics. As even, St Paul withstood St Peter; and St Timothy is admonished by St Paul regarding heretics.

Michael Voris is not pretending to be prelate or a bishop, anymore, than you are Mr. Shea. He sees, as I am sure you do, what is at stake: Souls.

Why would one sit idlely by, whenever Catholic shepherds whose duty it is to safeguard let the wolves in, to pray upon the sheep; or even more sickening are "wolves in sheep's clothing", themselves. 

One must warn, educate, and sound the alarm to one's Catholic brethren, that orthodox and traditional Catholicism is the Way.  It is what Christ our Saviour gave us. We cannot and must not give that away without a fight. And Mr Voris, from all of what he has said in his plethora of videos, is doing just that.

May our Saviour Bless and keep you.
Dominus Vobiscum.

-Virgil the Roman

Have I spoken out of turn or wrongfully? Kindly inform me if any of you think so.  I just see this posting of Mr Shea, as seeing "quarrels" with Mr Vorish and other like "obstacles" that simply are not; and do not exist. He is acting much rather like the famed, Don Quixote.  Chasing after windmills, mistaking them for giants of another sort.

God be with you,

Matthew
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#16
(04-15-2011, 01:17 AM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(04-15-2011, 01:10 AM)Augstine Baker Wrote: he was recently attacking Fr. Corapi and defending his girlfriend, another establishment waste product, The Cankoress.

Shea is married and a girlfriend implies romance.  Please don't engage in calumny and rumor-mongering.  You can make your point without doing that.  Thanks.

I should have put "gal-pal". 
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#17
(04-15-2011, 02:18 AM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: I posted respectfully on Mr Shea's blog; under the comments. I tried to be civil and respectful.

I thought it was fine.
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#18
The incoherent part of this, Shea and a few of the blogs linking to his is the comparison with Fr. Pfleger in Chicago. 

Voris says, if the priest is essentially Fr. Pfleger that you should leave the parish and go to a better parish. 

Shea says that to follow Voris' advice and leave a parish headed by a Fr. Pfleger- wanna be is wrong.  ( As if Jesus wouldn't be more pleased that you search and go to greater efforts to worship Him at a better parish with a better priest. )

Of course Fr. Pfleger is ready to officially leave the Church if he has to leave his parish and most of his parish is ready to stick with him it seems.

So Shea is producing a sort of mirror image of St. Athanasius' famous quote.  Basically Shea says if you are in the right building, you've got the faith and forget about reverence, respect, orthodoxy etc.  You are ultimately a prisoner of the heretic priest. 

It's "Cult of office" combined with institutionalized docility on the part of the neo-Catholics.  There is nothing militant about those members of the Church Militant, they are simply "People of God."  (whatever that means)     
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#19
Ultimately, all of those professional apologetes are protestant lay ministers posing as Catholics.  They are more interested in respectability than sanctity and don't seem to conflate their concern for apparent extremism with truth and falsehood.
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#20
oh.. look at this.  Someone posted this link and it looks like I'm behind the curve.  I was speculating on things that have already occurred. 


http://markshea.blogspot.com/2010/09/sun...ss-of.html


Quote: Monday, September 20, 2010
Sungenis Gives Michael Voris the Kiss of Death

From Sungenis' site: "Michael Voris on Jews & Judaism - Someone Finally Got it Right"

That's all the warning anybody needs.
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