The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
#11
(04-18-2011, 09:17 PM)salus Wrote: I think the Popes refusing to obey Our Lady of Fatima's request to reveal the 3rd Secret  in 1960 was more detrimental than the "alleged" ELECTION OF cARDINAL sIRI.

Maybe, but imagine how different things could be today if he had accepted (assuming he got the votes, obviously).  Kinda makes you wonder.
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#12
http://www.thepopeinred.com/thesis.htm

That is an interesting website.  Or just google 'Siri Thesis' for all kinds of websites.  From what I've read in the past and as it's set out at the website given above, Siri refused because a cardinal on the inside was an agent for the communists and he said that if Siri was elected, the USSR would do bad things.  The website given above also points out that under canon law at the time, "Resignation is invalid by law if it was made out of grave fear unjustly inflicted, fraud, substantial error, or simony (1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 185)".

There are also other reports of cardinals fighting over what to put in the stove to make the smoke white or black and other shenanigans.
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#13
(04-18-2011, 10:36 PM)Jacob Wrote: http://www.thepopeinred.com/thesis.htm

Yes. This is the site for the Siri hypothesis.
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#14
If Cardinal Siri refused, why would Roncalli even be in the running? Since Roncalli had a reputation as a modernist, you would think they would have elected a cardinal who was closer to Siri, than at the opposite end of the spectrum. Odd.
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#15
(04-18-2011, 11:25 PM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
(04-18-2011, 10:36 PM)Jacob Wrote: http://www.thepopeinred.com/thesis.htm

Yes. This is the site for the Siri hypothesis.

Yep, that it is.

As far as the Soviets threatening to do bad things, that isn't a legitimate reason. Read the Gulag Archipelago sometime and you'll see how bad things already were, and had been for some time. Way before the 50's they were murdering bishops and shipping everybody off willy-nilly to the slave camps. It was an ongoing thing.

It doesn't make sense to me to think that Rome caved to the Soviets because of threats. If somebody has murdered half of your brothers and sisters and friends, what kind of threat can they make that will affect you? At that point, wouldn't you be like, "Buzz off, do your worst and I'll to mine"?
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#16
Although we cannot judge, if Cardinal Siri was truly elected, he shouldn't have refused the charge.
When a man is elected to the Seat of Peter, that is the will of the Holy Spirit : Unless he had very serious, personal and spiritual reasons, refusing the charge, whichever actually were the physical threats he and his family would undergo, is showing a deep lack of courage and confidence in the Holy Spirit.
That same lack of courage and confidence John XXIII displayed when he refused to unveil the 3rd Secret because the council's calling process was already ongoing.
That same lack of courage and confidence John Paul II displayed when he timidly attempted to consecrate Russia without even naming that country(!) out of fear of "offending".
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#17
You csnt say he shouldn't of refused. U don't know whay was going on his her oe mind to say that.
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#18
(04-18-2011, 10:36 PM)Jacob Wrote: From what I've read in the past and as it's set out at the website given above, Siri refused because a cardinal on the inside was an agent for the communists and he said that if Siri was elected, the USSR would do bad things.  The website given above also points out that under canon law at the time, "Resignation is invalid by law if it was made out of grave fear unjustly inflicted, fraud, substantial error, or simony (1917 Code of Canon Law, Canon 185)".

That canon wouldn't apply to a refusal, though.  So that really only matters if he accepted and then changed his mind.  And I guess that's one theory.  But you'd think he and other cardinals would be up on this stuff.
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#19
Perhaps he refused because some Communist and Masonic agents had infiltrated the Vatican by 1958 and said if you accept you will die and the Vatican will be taken over completely by Communist henchman!!
I have no clue, but its just speculation!
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#20
(04-20-2011, 06:34 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Perhaps he refused because some Communist and Masonic agents had infiltrated the Vatican by 1958 and said if you accept you will die and the Vatican will be taken over completely by Communist henchman!!
I have no clue, but its just speculation!

I guess that a man chosen by the Holy Spirit cannot be moved by death threats against him or his family. Otherwise he is not worthy of the charge.
If God's will is that he must be Pope, then don't worry and go ahead.
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