Our Lady of Fatima
#31
(05-11-2011, 12:39 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 12:35 PM)maso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 11:11 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Heck, even Mary Pyle who spent her last 50+  years or so under the care and protection of Padre Pio had to do a little time in Purgatory, according to some books I read.....Perhaps The Plenary Indulgences she performed weren't enough to remove all the stain of sin she accumulated when she was living a life of luxury as a Rich Protestant in NYC and Morristown, New Jersey.

That's truly a mystery.
Didnt Jesus say to the good thief when He was on the cross: "Today you will be with Me in Heavens" ?
Certainly the good thief's soul was darker than that of Mrs Pyle who in addition was lucky enough to meet Padre Pio. St Pio had the gift to read inside the souls, and he couldn't discern that she wasn't yet worthy to go to Heavens immediately? Hmmm...

This looks as if the only way to avoid Hell and possibly Purgatory too, would be to be martyred because of our Faith.

plenary indulgence is whatcha need...



Yes, but my point is it must be extremely difficult for God to grant you a Plenary Indulgence if, as it seems, 99.9% of the people who eventually go to Heaven have to spend some time in Purgatory!
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#32
(05-11-2011, 12:39 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 12:35 PM)maso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 11:11 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Heck, even Mary Pyle who spent her last 50+  years or so under the care and protection of Padre Pio had to do a little time in Purgatory, according to some books I read.....Perhaps The Plenary Indulgences she performed weren't enough to remove all the stain of sin she accumulated when she was living a life of luxury as a Rich Protestant in NYC and Morristown, New Jersey.

That's truly a mystery.
Didnt Jesus say to the good thief when He was on the cross: "Today you will be with Me in Heavens" ?
Certainly the good thief's soul was darker than that of Mrs Pyle who in addition was lucky enough to meet Padre Pio. St Pio had the gift to read inside the souls, and he couldn't discern that she wasn't yet worthy to go to Heavens immediately? Hmmm...

This looks as if the only way to avoid Hell and possibly Purgatory too, would be to be martyred because of our Faith.

plenary indulgence is whatcha need...


Plenary indulgence is THEORETICALLY  the means to avoid Hell, but don't forget that to comply fully to the conditions of indulgences one must give up ANY attachment to sin, even the smallest one. Who is able to say he has no such attachment if not the newborn alone?
For that reason, the only indulgences we are sure to earn are PARTIAL ones.
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#33
(05-11-2011, 01:12 PM)maso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 12:39 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 12:35 PM)maso Wrote:
(05-11-2011, 11:11 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: Heck, even Mary Pyle who spent her last 50+  years or so under the care and protection of Padre Pio had to do a little time in Purgatory, according to some books I read.....Perhaps The Plenary Indulgences she performed weren't enough to remove all the stain of sin she accumulated when she was living a life of luxury as a Rich Protestant in NYC and Morristown, New Jersey.

That's truly a mystery.
Didnt Jesus say to the good thief when He was on the cross: "Today you will be with Me in Heavens" ?
Certainly the good thief's soul was darker than that of Mrs Pyle who in addition was lucky enough to meet Padre Pio. St Pio had the gift to read inside the souls, and he couldn't discern that she wasn't yet worthy to go to Heavens immediately? Hmmm...

This looks as if the only way to avoid Hell and possibly Purgatory too, would be to be martyred because of our Faith.

plenary indulgence is whatcha need...


Plenary indulgence is THEORETICALLY  the means to avoid Hell, but don't forget that to comply fully to the conditions of indulgences one must give up ANY attachment to sin, even the smallest one. Who is able to say he has no such attachment if not the newborn alone?
For that reason, the only indulgences we are sure to earn are PARTIAL ones.

We all have the access to grace to detach ourselves from sin, even the most small. So do as Our Lady says: say your rosaries, offer sacrifice, and get to Mass on first Saturdays.

And the person that said only 3 were saved in a village of 30000, I think was from St. Leonard of Port Maurice's sermon on the number saved.
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#34
(05-11-2011, 11:31 AM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(05-09-2011, 04:56 PM)mikemac Wrote: Well I don't know of a seventh apparition of Our Lady at Fatima Jacafamala.  Maybe someone else does.  Anyone?

I've read a lot about Fatima but I don't ever remember reading anything about a seventh, possibly future apparition at Fatima.  I hope someone can add to this.

I don't know if Petertherock is quoting from the Fatima.org site but it says the same, "Afterwards, I will return here yet a seventh time".
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/crintro/crintropg3.asp

Maybe Our Lady says seven because of August 13 and August 19, 1917.  On August 13 the three little shepherds were kidnapped by the district Administrator.  Those that did go to the Cova da Iria on August 13 testified that they did see anomalies but not Our Lady.  On August 19 Our Lady appeared again.  No it can't be because of August 13 and August 19, 1917 because Our Lady said "Afterwards, I will return here yet a seventh time".         

Still wondering about this... Anyone?  ???

Jac, I don't have documentation on this (& may not be able to locate it) but I think I recall reading that Our Lady did return the 7th time - right before Lucy left Fatima for good to go to the Dorotheans (I believe that was her 1st  convent). I somehow recall this being very private - for Lucy alone, bereft of her cousins and leaving her home.

General FYI to anyone - when Our Lady came in the 20's to Sr. Lucy in Tuy, that was to ask for the consecration, it was not "the 7th time" for appearance at Fatima. Lastly, and again I don't know that I can locate the documentation, but again I think I recall that Amelia had had an abortion - though it's possible that what I read was a Fatima expert's opinion. If I wasn't pretty sure about this and the above, I wouldn't post, but cannot guarantee. The sources I'd had are older ones (including Brother Michel's outstanding trilogy which I'm sure remains out of print) and it's been over a decade since I've had access to them.

Fr. Alonso was the appointed Church historian re: Fatima. His lengthy "thee work" on Fatima (to my knowledge, still) has not been allowed to see the light of day, was shelved or suppressed...gosh, I wanto say, early 60's-70's. I'm pretty darn sure Br. Michel had access to it, though. Fr. Alonso's work is exceedingly important.

ETA -- correct decade!
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#35
So exceedingly important that the Vatican prefered to silence him too. Only one among the 28 volumes he wrote on Fatima was allowed for printing.
Unless the 27 non printed volumes contained only stuffs against faith and morals, no valid explanation was given by the Vatican for this "non imprimatur".
Who fears Fr Alonso?
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#36
This author  indicates Our Lady has not returned a 7th time. http://www.traditioninaction.org/religio...elRose.htm

Fr. Gruner states Our Lady's 6 visits but not a 7th appearance. http://www.fatimacrusader.com/geof/III.asp


www.queenship.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=6565
John Paul II, the Pope Who Understood Fatima

"An often-overlooked historical fact of Fátima is the announcement of Our Lady’s seventh coming: “Afterwards I shall still return here a seventh time.” ("Despois voltarei ainda aqui uma setima vez.”) During 1917, Our Lady publicly appeared to the children six times, from May 13th to October 13th. During her first visit, Our Lady said to Lucia: “I want you to come here for six consecutive months, on the thirteenth day at the same time. Afterwards I shall still return here a seventh time.” Curiously, this phrase was not included in the earlier reports about the events because it was only revealed by Sister Lucia in obedience to the bishop, in her fourth written memoir.

A key term in Our Lady’s announcement is the word “here”. Many have interpreted Our Lady’s seventh visit as being the one that took place on December 10th of 1925, when Our Lady appeared to sister Lucia and asked for the sacramental reparation of Confession and Holy Communion on First Saturdays. That, however, took place in the convent of Pontevedra, Spain, not in Fátima. Others hold that it was Our Lady’s apparition of June 13th, 1929, to Sister Lucia in which she asked the Pope and bishops of the world for the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart. Again, this took place in the Dorothean Convent of Tuy, a Spanish town on the border with Portugal. Neither of these apparitions seem to fulfill Our Lady’s statement, “I shall still return here,” which implies a return to the Cove in Fátima.

A footnote added to “Sister Lucia’s Memoirs” suggests that this predicted Seventh time might have taken place on the morning of June 16th, 1921, when Sister Lucia went back to the Cove to bid farewell to Fátima in her way to the convent. This would have been one more of the many personal visits of Our Lady to Sister Lucia. However, this theory seems contradicted by Sister’s Lucia’s words in her manuscripts from her Spanish convent. “After six years of real trial (since 1917) it was on this day, August 26, 1923, that the Virgin Mary first visited me again.” According to this, Our Lady did not appear to her at the Cove in 1921. As to whether the seventh apparition at the Cove foretold by Our Lady took place during Sister Lucia’s lifetime or not, she never announced it. One can only wonder, why did Our Lady prophesy this seventh apparition so solemnly?... Although the faithful have always assumed that Our Lady meant a seventh apparition to Sister Lucia, Our Lady’s actual words, “I shall return here”, never specified that such a visit would be a personal apparition to Sister Lucia. This prophesied “Seventh visit” continues to remain in the amazing mystery of Fátima."

Taken from "John Paul II, the Pope Who Understood Fatima" I found it here: http://www.queenship.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=6565





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#37
(05-11-2011, 01:12 PM)maso Wrote: Plenary indulgence is THEORETICALLY  the means to avoid Hell, but don't forget that to comply fully to the conditions of indulgences one must give up ANY attachment to sin, even the smallest one. Who is able to say he has no such attachment if not the newborn alone?
For that reason, the only indulgences we are sure to earn are PARTIAL ones.

plenary indulgences are the means to avoid purgatory, not hell.

but yeah it must be pretty tough to get a plenary.
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#38
Let's all try to say an extra Rosary today in honor of Our Lady and also for the intention of petitioning that the Pope will consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart.  The only way to achieve peace as ordained in the divine plan.
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#39
(05-10-2011, 06:45 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Amelia in Purgatory is one of the most horrifying part of the message of Fatima. We should pray for her soul, since we know that she will be there until the world ends.

There are still many souls who are most abandoned and destitute of spiritual aid and there are also many souls we are most duty bound to pray for by an obligation of justice.  Amelia, though sh'd be the last to leave Purgatory, at least she is saved.  We cannot say that for ourselves.  I would take that place if I was assurred of salvation.  Should be an honor to be the one to turn off the light.
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#40
(05-11-2011, 08:05 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote: We have no idea if it was a sin against chastity that is keeping that girl in purgatory until the end of time.  I know it's hard for many traddies to believe this, but there are much worse sins than those against chastity.  They may be some of the most common, but that doesn't make them the worst.

+1

Unchastity is the least of sins--just enough to damn you. Pride, uncharity, hypocrisy, these are all exponentially worse than unchastity.

If I could sum up the Fatima Message in as few words as possible, it would be, "Turn to the Immaculate Heart and attend to your duties of state." It's easy to talk of divine chastisements, Russia, and geo-politics. It takes no commitment and action to talk and speculate about things over which you have no control. That's the easy part about Fatima. It's far more difficult to mind your own temporal and religious duties, all those little hum-drum things you have to do day in and day out, at the service of God and your neighbor. But that's the message, and that's the part I find the most difficult. Pope St. Pius X said: "Do your duty and all will go well." He also said,

"When anyone tells me about the extraordinary, I am the most incredulous man in the world..., but when holiness results from the practice of virtue..., I believe in it.  Just this morning ... I was saying that long ago the devil manifested himself openly in the possessed whom he caused to suffer, and from whom he could be driven out only by exorcism.  Now he has changed his method; he takes the appearance of sanctity and makes people believe in visions.  He even gives to certain persons the knowledge of hidden things, so that they may appear to prophesy; sometimes he even simulates stigmata!  But as for holiness expressed in the simple practice of virtue...,  I believe in that.  That is indeed holiness....  The way to sanctity is not  difficult. It is a thorny road, but easy."
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