Liturgical Abuses Encouraged by John Paul II says Former Master of Ceremonies
#31
The impression I get from reading SOME of the above posts is that the way in which Jesus Christ, the Eternal High Priest, perfectly instituted both the ontological essence ("ens" - being - that which makes a thing to be what it is) and the metaphysical essence ("actus" - act - what the ontological essence does), of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is actually irrelevant?

In other words, it sounds as if any liturgical ceremony would be acceptable, no matter who instituted it, or, God-forbid, even a Satanic “black mass”?! 

I, for one, REFUSE to believe that even one Catholic would ever even want to actually think exclusively in these horrible terms!

On the contrary, I prefer to impute to all Catholics their love of the Catholic Traditional Mass.  Furthermore, it is good, and refreshing, to remember certain beautiful Truths about what the Catholic Traditional Mass really is. 

For example, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is an act of Worship - hence a Profession of the unchangeable Catholic Faith:

Quote:“All ceremonies are Professions of Faith, in which the interior worship of God consists.  Now man can make profession of his inward faith, by deeds as well as by words; and in either profession, if he makes a false declaration, he sins mortally... Consequently, just as it would be a mortal sin now for anyone, in making a profession of faith, to say that Christ is yet to be born, which the fathers of old said devoutly and Truthfully; so too, it would be a mortal sin now to observe those ceremonies which the fathers of old fulfilled with devotion and fidelity. Such is the teaching of Augustine (CONTRA FAUST. xix.16)” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, O.P., [b. 1225 A.D. in Rocca Secca, Naples, Italy - d. Wednesday, March 7, 1274 A.D., in Fossa Nuova, Italy], Doctor of the Church, “Summa Theologica”, Part I-II, Question 103, Article 4).”

The very fact that “All ceremonies are Professions of Faith, in which the interior worship of God consists” (Op. Cit.), is the theological and liturgical basis for the axiom of the Infallible Roman Catholic Pope Saint Celestine I [Saturday, September 10, 422  - Tuesday, July 27, 432 ] who taught the principle: “Legem Credendi Lex Statuit Supplicandi” - The Liturgical form of prayer becomes the standard of Faith.

This is sometimes shortened to simply “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi” - The Law of Praying is the Law of Believing. 

This simply means that you declare, by a public, exterior liturgical act of worship, both your own personal interior beliefs of your faith and your own personal interior worship of God, externally expressed in public worship ceremonies. 

Thus, you pray what you believe and you believe what you pray.

But how could the Infallible Roman Catholic Pope, Celestine I, teach this profound theological-liturgical axiom IF there were contradictory liturgical rites in his days?

But what IF the Infallible Roman Catholic Pope, Celestine I, had lived instead in the 16th Century?

What would have been the scenario concerning his “Legem Credendi Lex Statuit Supplicandi” - The Liturgical form of prayer becomes the standard of Faith, a.k.a. “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi” - The Law of Praying is the Law of Believing during the 16th Century Protestant revolt?

The first would be the Catholic Traditional Holy SACRIFICE of the Mass which contains the unchangeable ontological essence and the unchangeable metaphysical essence of the Mass as Jesus Christ, the Eternal High Priest, had perfectly instituted it, and which is offered by the Mass Celebrant (Prelate - Priest) on an “Altar” facing God, as a Mediator between God and mankind - with his back to the people on whose behalf he is mediating for them with Almighty God.

The second would be the totally Protestant SUPPER MEAL “non-mass” (an “anti-mass”) which was imperfectly instituted by finite men who, anticipating the axiom of Martin Luther:

Quote:“Tolle Missam, Tolle Ecclesiam”

TAKE AWAY THE MASS, AND YOU DESTROY THE CHURCH!

(what an understatement this is for today!)

This resulted in their deliberately throwing out the unchangeable ontological essence and the unchangeable metaphysical essence of the Mass (not to mention the Seven Sacraments along with the Mass) as Jesus Christ, the Eternal High Priest, had perfectly instituted it, and replaced these required essences with only an “anti-mass” - A MERE MEMORIAL SUPPER MEAL which is performed by the “President of the Assembly” on a “table” facing the people with his back to Almighty God.

Does this sound vaguely familiar?

Below are some statistics that should silence all skeptics.  These statistics really explain much more clearly, and in a much more forceful way, not only:

Quote: “Legem Credendi Lex Statuit Supplicandi” - The Liturgical form of prayer becomes the standard of Faith, a.k.a. “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi” - The Law of Praying is the Law of Believing,

but most especially the totally disastrous and devastating:

Quote:“Tolle Missam, Tolle Ecclesiam”

TAKE AWAY THE MASS, AND YOU DESTROY THE CHURCH!

It was about thirty-seven years after the end of the only church council of the 20th century which found that the jury has come in with its verdict:

Vatican 2 appears to have been an unrelieved disaster for Roman Catholicism.

One person, Kenneth C. Jones of St. Louis, gathered together a slim volume of statistics entitled:

Quote:“Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II”.

His findings make prophets of Catholic Traditionalists who warned that Vatican 2 would prove to be a blunder of historic dimensions.  These statics expose, as both foolish and naive, those people who believed that a council could somehow reconcile two opposites - Catholicism and Modernism - modernity.

When His Holiness, the 2nd Pope John 23rd, threw open the windows of the Church, all of the poisonous vapors of Modernism (condemned by His Holiness, Pope Saint Pius X), entered, along with the Devil himself (Pope Paul 6’s “Smoke of Satan” Sermon).

Here are Jones’s grim statistics of the rapid decline and decay of Roman Catholicism:

Quote:Priests. While the number of Priests in the United States more than doubled to 58,000, between 1930 and 1965, since then that number has fallen to 45,000.
By 2020, there will be only 31,000 Priests left, and more than half of these Priests will be over 70.

Ordinations. In 1965, 1,575 new Priests were Ordained in the United States. In 2002, the number was 450.
In 1965, only 1 percent of U.S. parishes were without a Priest.
Now there are 3,000 priestless parishes, 15 percent of all U.S. parishes.

Seminarians. Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700, a decline of over 90 percent.
Two-thirds of the 600 seminaries that were operating in 1965 have now closed.

Sisters. In 1965, there were 180,000 Catholic nuns.
By 2002, that had fallen to 75,000 and the average age of a Catholic nun is today 68. In 1965, there were 104,000 teaching nuns.
Today, there are 8,200, a decline of 94 percent since the end of Vatican 2.

Religious Orders. For Religious Orders in America, the end is in sight.
In 1965, 3,559 young men were studying to become Jesuit Priests.
In 2000, the figure was 389.
With the Christian Brothers, the situation is even more dire. Their number has shrunk by two-thirds, with the number of seminarians falling 99 percent.
In 1965, there were 912 seminarians in the Christian Brothers.
In 2000, there were only seven.
The number of young men studying to become Franciscan and Redemptorist Priests fell from 3,379 in 1965 to 84 in 2000.

Catholic schools. Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965.
The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000.
Parochial schools suffered an even greater decline.
Some 4,000 have disappeared, and the number of pupils attending has fallen below 2 million - from 4.5 million.

Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.

Catholic Marriage. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002.

Attendance at Mass. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays.
A RECENT STUDY BY THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME FOUND THAT ONLY ONE IN FOUR NOW ATTEND. (Emphasis added.)

Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception.

Fifty-three percent believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic.

Sixty-five percent believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry.

SEVENTY-SEVEN PERCENT BELIEVE ONE CAN BE A GOOD CATHOLIC WITHOUT GOING TO MASS ON SUNDAYS. (Emphasis added.)

By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a “symbolic reminder” of Jesus.

At the opening of Vatican 2, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible, breviaries, and missals, abandoning the ancient Catholic Traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world.

And their legacy?

Five decades of devastation wrought upon the church.

The disgrace of a Hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church.

Through the papacy of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, the Church resisted the clamor to accommodate herself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind.

But, since Vatican 2, the church has sought not only to meet the world, but to become “worldly” via “dialogue”.

Jones’ statistics tell us the price of such a devastating appeasement.

Thanks for reading!

God Bless You!

A Catholic Catholic
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#32
So we are to believe that the same pope who kissed korans, prayed St John the Baptist's blessing upon Islam, prayed with pagans and came dangerously close to preaching a Universal Salvation allowed or even encouraged Liturgical novelty and abuse?

I refuse to believe such nonsense.
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#33
(05-12-2011, 03:58 PM)username123 Wrote: So we are to believe that the same pope who kissed korans, prayed St John the Baptist's blessing upon Islam, prayed with pagans and came dangerously close to preaching a Universal Salvation allowed or even encouraged Liturgical novelty and abuse?

I refuse to believe such nonsense.

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#34
(05-11-2011, 05:10 PM)salus Wrote: I believe the master of ceremonies and the Pope both were involved, lets remember The Luminous Mysteries he gave us to disrupt TRADITION. I read in a book a while back that Pope John Paul 2 believed we had to break the traditions of the church down, his papacy proved that on many fronts.

Sorry, but I couldn't let this pass. I was 28 yrs. old when Vatican II ended & the Rosary had been a BIG part of my life......second only to the Mass. During the council (& even before) the eternal virginity of Mary was a great source of contention involving the "theologians" (Von Balsador. Kung, Karl Rahner) of western Europe. After the council, the statues of Mary were the first thing to disappear from our wreckovated Churches. No one mentioned the Rosary, it just quietly disappeared. There was no rosary before Mass, no Marian Novenas, No crowning of the statue of Mary on May 1st. (after all, it was gone). etc. Think about it, what is one of the very first criticisms of the "separated brethren" when they speak of the Catholic Church??? YOU PRAY TO MARY & THE SAINTS!!!!

http://www.marycoredemptrix.com/perpetua...inity.html

]size=10pt]"The first Marian schema (presented to the council) contained the words 'who [the Son] willed the bodily integrity of his Mother to remain, in the moment of birth (in ipsomet partu), incorrupt and untouched...'But unfortunately, Father Rahner, the most influential peritus at the Council, was able to sabotage this schema. Fr. Ralph Wiltgen in his very informative, "The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber" ,writes:        "When the German and Austrian Council Fathers received their copies of the schema, they asked Father Rahner to prepare comments on it for presentation at the forthcoming Fulda conference.

      "According to Father Rahner, whose written comments were distributed to all participants in the conference, the schema as then drafted was 'a source of the greatest concern'...Were the text to be accepted as it stood, he contended, 'unimaginable harm would result from an [size=10pt]ecumenical point of view, in relation to both Orientals and Protestants.
' It could not be too strongly stressed, he said, 'that all the success achieved in the field of ecumenism through the Council and in connection with the Council will be rendered worthless by the retention of the schema as it stands.[/
size]
[/size]

The rosary was left to rust for many years & it was John Paul II who brought it back with his "Year of the Rosary". JPII was definitely not my favorite pope, but on this point.....he did just fine.
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#35
A Catholic Catholic has written:

"At the opening of Vatican 2, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible, breviaries, and missals, abandoning the ancient Catholic Traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world. And their legacy?  Five decades of devastation wrought upon the church.  The disgrace of a Hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church. Through the papacy of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, the Church resisted the clamor to accommodate herself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind. But, since Vatican 2, the church has sought not only to meet the world, but .
to become “worldly” via “dialogue”.Jones’ statistics tell us the price of such a devastating appeasement.Thanks for reading!God Bless You!A Catholic Catholic."

:cheers:



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#36
(05-12-2011, 07:40 PM)wulfrano Wrote: A Catholic Catholic has written:

"At the opening of Vatican 2, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible, breviaries, and missals, abandoning the ancient Catholic Traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world. And their legacy?  Five decades of devastation wrought upon the church.  The disgrace of a Hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church. Through the papacy of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, the Church resisted the clamor to accommodate herself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind. But, since Vatican 2, the church has sought not only to meet the world, but .
to become “worldly” via “dialogue”.Jones’ statistics tell us the price of such a devastating appeasement.Thanks for reading!God Bless You!A Catholic Catholic."

:cheers:

Let the people say Amen.
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#37
(05-12-2011, 03:58 PM)username123 Wrote: So we are to believe that the same pope who kissed korans, prayed St John the Baptist's blessing upon Islam, prayed with pagans and came dangerously close to preaching a Universal Salvation allowed or even encouraged Liturgical novelty and abuse?

I refuse to believe such nonsense.
 

Will you please phrase differently your post.  I can't understand it as it is.  Thank you.
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#38
(05-12-2011, 08:49 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(05-12-2011, 03:58 PM)username123 Wrote: So we are to believe that the same pope who kissed korans, prayed St John the Baptist's blessing upon Islam, prayed with pagans and came dangerously close to preaching a Universal Salvation allowed or even encouraged Liturgical novelty and abuse?

I refuse to believe such nonsense.
 

Will you please phrase differently your post.  I can't understand it as it is.  Thank you.

I am sarcastically feigning shock that John Paul II would encourage Liturgical abuse given his track record of scandalous behaviour. Said plainly, I would not be surprised if JPII was behind the Liturgical nonsense that occurred at his "masses."

Viva Cristo Rey, brother.
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#39
(05-12-2011, 06:39 AM)A-Catholic-Catholic Wrote: At the opening of Vatican 2, reformers were all the rage. They were going to lead us out of our Catholic ghettos by altering the liturgy, rewriting the Bible, breviaries, and missals, abandoning the ancient Catholic Traditions, making us more ecumenical, and engaging the world.

And their legacy?

Five decades of devastation wrought upon the church.

The disgrace of a Hierarchy that lacked the moral courage of the Boy Scouts to keep the perverts out of the seminaries, and throw them out of the rectories and schools of Holy Mother Church.

Through the papacy of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, the Church resisted the clamor to accommodate herself to the world and remained a moral beacon to mankind.

But, since Vatican 2, the church has sought not only to meet the world, but to become “worldly” via “dialogue”.

Jones’ statistics tell us the price of such a devastating appeasement.

AMEN!
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#40
[I am sarcastically feigning shock that John Paul II would encourage Liturgical abuse given his track record of scandalous behaviour. Said plainly, I would not be surprised if JPII was behind the Liturgical nonsense that occurred at his "masses."

Viva Cristo Rey, brother.
[/quote]

"Said plainly, I would not be surprised if JPII was behind the Liturgical nonsense that occurred at his "masses.""

@ Username123.

I like you so much that I will give you a big hint.

Mgr. Bernard Fellay, in an interrview, recently said that there are four masonic lodges now working inside the Vatican.  How is that for news and a big hint?
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