Why was cremation not allowed pre-vatican II?
#21
(05-12-2011, 09:22 PM)moneil Wrote: As has been mentioned, the Church imposed a canonical prohibition against cremation because of the rise of certain societies that advocated cremation as “statement” against the Church’s belief in the resurrection of body

Any eventually we will get back to a canonical prohibition on communion in the hand - it too was originally a statement agains the belief of the Church (in this instance, in the Real Presence).

But that's another thread!  :laughing:
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#22
(05-13-2011, 01:09 AM)Adam Wayne Wrote: He made the point that abortion and contraception led to this throw away mentality on the part of some.

This is so true.  The sexual revolution of the 1960's and the liberalism that followed (and indeed paved the way for it) has led to the loss of countless souls and the feeling amongst many that it's so hard to have a moral compass these days.  I personally believe the rot started even further back with the reformation and the liberation of the concept of divorce - once people regarded marriage as disposal, it was only a matter of time before everything else follows suit.  Any of course nowadays we even regard human life as disposal in its entirety and in many place ab initio.

Our Lady of Fatima pray for us wretches.
:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
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#23
exactly and our bodies as mere trash ready to burn ::)
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#24
One can understand some people having strong feelings about cremation, but I don’t think it likely we’ll see a reversal of the current trend, or another canonical ban of the practice (which, I believe, was a rather modern decree, dating back to only the ninetieth century).

Christians continued the ancient customs of the Jews regarding burial (though for both Jews and Christians exceptions were made in extraordinary circumstances of war and pestilence).  While tradition was the strongest force in preferring burial, there was also the practical issue that until the development of the modern retort in the nineteenth (ref. the link in my previous post) cremation of individual bodies could be a difficult, expensive, and time consuming process.  Burial was simpler.  And, for a long time, unless one was well to do and could afford certain “funerary niceties”, a common folk body was often pretty much buried “like trash”.  This “disponable” concept is not necessarily a “new trend” that started with the “cremation movement”.

A poster on page two of this thread stated his view that cremation is ”…materialist and diabolic and of no value and a scandal.”  Interestingly, that is exactly what some people (not myself) think about some aspects of modern burial practices, and why they choose to avoid it.  If one wants to see examples of “materialistic” check out “Private Estate Mausoleums” http://www.foreverlegacy.com/?gclid=CJ-BgKiovJ8CFRciagodRmYJ1A

I am not a proponent of cremation per se but there are some things people might want to consider in this regard.  The typical U.S. funeral in 2009 averaged $6,560 before cemetery costs http://www.nfda.org/media-center/statisticsreports.html.  Cemetery costs for traditional burial of a casket may run $1,000 for a space, $400 - $600 for a basic liner (in lieu of a vault), $500 - $800 for opening and closing costs, $300 - $500 for a basic flat stone marker.  Most people aren’t necessarily prudent enough to plan ahead, and many people don’t have a spare $10k sitting around.

Some people choose cremation because they are cheap, others because they don’t care for what they perceive as the “gaudiness” of the modern funeral home service and merchandise offerings, and others may choose it because it’s all they can afford.  What many across this spectrum often don’t realize or consider is that: (1) With some planning and homework a dignified traditional service and committal can be arranged at lower cost and without “gaudiness”; and (2) Selecting post service cremation can be a strategy for significantly lowering the cost of a traditional service (casket and cemetery costs can be substantially reduced).  Also to be considered is that in some parts of the world there is just not much spare land available to bury people (ref. the example of Japan).  This is starting to become true in some large urban areas in the U.S.  Mausoleums can be one strategy (they don’t necessarily need to be an expensive strategy but at the moment usually are), and cremation with inurnment in a columbarium can be another.

What I’m trying to say is that cremation, in and of itself, is simply one means of preparing the body for final committal.  Any “ideological load” it may seem to carry is one that has been appended to it, not anything intrinsic to it, in my humble opinion.

For those who cherish the ideal of a traditional Catholic funeral and burial it is prudent to do some planning.  I started a thread about that here http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3439518.0.html, which also includes a link to the excellent material on Catholic Funerals on the Fish Eaters web site.

Again, as the Catholic Encyclopedia article (linked in the second post of this thread) stated:
Quote:In conclusion, it must be remembered that there is nothing directly opposed to any dogma of the Church in the practice of cremation, and that, if ever the leaders of this sinister movement so far control the governments of the world as to make this custom universal, it would not be a lapse in the faith confided to her were she obliged to conform.
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#25
can we be obliged to conform to the world ???
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#26
We live in a disposable society. I think Captialism also plays a major role here. Every product is throwaway. We are encouraged to kill embryos and use our organs as a kind of morbid junkyard for spare parts. Yet we kill in the womb. It's one upside down world. But perceptions molded vis a vis major media outlets couldn't have anything to do with this. Right?

(05-13-2011, 04:55 AM)Pilgrim_here Wrote:
(05-13-2011, 01:09 AM)Adam Wayne Wrote: He made the point that abortion and contraception led to this throw away mentality on the part of some.

This is so true.  The sexual revolution of the 1960's and the liberalism that followed (and indeed paved the way for it) has led to the loss of countless souls and the feeling amongst many that it's so hard to have a moral compass these days.  I personally believe the rot started even further back with the reformation and the liberation of the concept of divorce - once people regarded marriage as disposal, it was only a matter of time before everything else follows suit.  Any of course nowadays we even regard human life as disposal in its entirety and in many place ab initio.

Our Lady of Fatima pray for us wretches.
:pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:
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#27
Since I have to be at so many funerals, I get to see differences in behavior of the people attending funerals depending on whether it is a cremation or not.  It seems that people have less tendency toward respect, silence, and prayer when it is a can of ashes instead of an intact body that is sitting there in the church.  I know that I, personally, feel different when I pass by a body as opposed to the urn.    Obviously, there's no theological reasoning (lest my observances get mistaken for implied church teaching again) here, but just personal experience, but I do think it's rather telling.  Other people have already posted plenty on the theology of it.
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#28
External signs mean something. Just like receiving holy Communion kneeling shows our belief in transubstantiation, burying our bodies expresses our belief in the resurrection of the body at the end of time.
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#29
You need to make a distinction between cremation as a practicality, and cremation as a theological statement. My dad was cremated when he died because in that instance, transporting the body for burial at the family lot in Georgia would have cost a lot of money. I don't have any scruples about that.

The situation below:

(05-13-2011, 12:45 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: I believe there is some difference between dioceses on how to handle this.  My father died on a business trip and we could not afford to ship his body half way around the world so we cremated him.  However, we were not permitted to have a requiem mass for him because of this in our dioceses and had the mass in a neighboring dioceses with more liberal policies on this.  This was back in the mid-90s.

..... is absolutely foul, in my opinion. Were I the Pope, I'd sack a bishop who forbade a Requiem Mass for that reason.
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#30
Maybe some people don't want their bodies to liquifiey and leak out of their casket.

http://www.funerals-ripoffs.org/-A11bLw1.htm

Just a thought. 
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