Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text
(05-14-2011, 12:32 PM)Magdalene Wrote: I am too lazy to read through 10 pages of replies but Fr. Z. notes that we of the English language seem to have an "ICEL" version. So where it is strongly urged for seminarians to be trained, we just see that they are "asked" and so on. Sigh.

The word 'pastoral' is a loophole too.  Oh, Bishop so and so is just 'pastoral' which seems to say that he will not stand up forcefully for the Truth.

Sort of a chicken-and-the-egg argument: "hey seminarians! Learn Latin... Except we at the Vatican can't teach you much... We're terrible translators!" double sigh...
Reply
(05-14-2011, 12:32 PM)Magdalene Wrote: I am too lazy to read through 10 pages of replies but Fr. Z. notes that we of the English language seem to have an "ICEL" version. So where it is strongly urged for seminarians to be trained, we just see that they are "asked" and so on. Sigh.

The word 'pastoral' is a loophole too.  Oh, Bishop so and so is just 'pastoral' which seems to say that he will not stand up forcefully for the Truth.
The word pastoral  needs to die a quick death in English translations. Besides pastoring over animals or people, nobody knows what the crap it means. Its always used in a vague manner that seems to mean everything or nothing.
Why do we always get stuck with lousy translations into our language. The anglophone world always has banal translations.
Reply
It should have mandated Latin (as canon law specifies) and mandated that all seminaries world-wide (of the Roman rite) teach the Tridentine Mass to all of their seminarians, without exception.
Reply
(05-14-2011, 04:50 PM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: It should have mandated Latin (as canon law specifies) and mandated that all seminaries world-wide (of the Roman rite) teach the Tridentine Mass to all of their seminarians, without exception.

You're dreaming of a church without modernists.
Reply
(05-14-2011, 04:50 PM)Virgil the Roman Wrote: It should have mandated Latin (as canon law specifies) and mandated that all seminaries world-wide (of the Roman rite) teach the Tridentine Mass to all of their seminarians, without exception.

Well I think that is the next step if this "clarification" does not have the required effect.

Look just like many here I am frustrated with the speed of things, however one must understand that things when it come to Rome move at the pace of well very very slowly and the Vatican's patience tends to be quite limitless however it is not, there are limits and right now the Bishops are testing them. I mean think about it:

1. Paul VI refused to abrogate the TLM even when he was under pressure to do so.
2. John Paul II asked the Bishops to make the TLM available to those that desired it and to be generous about it.
3. Benedict XVI liberated any restriction on the TLM and took it out of the hands of the Bishops
4. B16 is now extraneously asking that seminarians be taught Latin (as they already should be) and learn the TLM in seminary.

The escalation of the issue will continue until we have turned the ship around. One way or another, the TLM is the future one way or another if Papal mandate wont do it the biological solution (which has already began) will.
Reply
THe Novus Ordo is too busy getting their priests to learn "pastoral" languages such as Spanish and others to have the time to learn Latin.
Reply
........................and they want Spanish not so they can be better confessors but to help illegals get around the laws  and to eventually become good little marxists like some of these Novus Ordo priests. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Reply
(05-14-2011, 06:28 AM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Let's be frank: when the Pope releases a document on the TLM, many neo-Catholics will look to the Trads. You're needlessly causing scandal. That you bring the Jews up disparagingly on this thread and drag the Holy Father's name thru the mud is completely unacceptable. And that's getting my undies in a knot? How about not wanting to turn people off from Traditionalism unnecessarily. I think that's of paramount importance. 

I don't want to intrude on the larger discussion, but I think that Bak is right on the money with the general thrust of this paragraph: I've lost count of the number of posts on FE that, if I had seen them first, I would never had joined this community. And this community has been the source of my life's greatest blessing save only for my conversion itself.

To speak on this forum is to speak publically. There's a burden of responsibility that goes with public speech, especially when it concerns the attribution of fault or misdeed, and especially when that concerns God's clergy. And also when it concerns matters of race and ethnicity.

The first Trad I ever met, many years ago, put me off of the Tradition and everything to do with it for a long time. Fortunately I came around and realized that he was just full of it. But people can do a lot of damage by shooting their mouths off. Especially when such mouth shootery amounts to little more than stroking one's own ego, in a mode of self-congratulation. Yes, much like a Pharisee. Now that's not directed at anyone in particular.
Reply
I don't want to derail this thread anymore, but I support what Vetus has said here. 

He is speaking wisely. 

Quote:There is always a middle road. I mean the Pope writes a 200-page book and folks get tied up in knots over a few lines. It was the same with Verbum Domini - the document has many excellent passages, encouraging the faithful to pray the Angelus, for example, which is an extremely traditional practice, yet that text was basically ignored on FE except some folks were going bonkers about female Lectors.

That's because the documents need to be 100% on the spot.  If someone makes a cake with 5% poison, are you going to say "let's ignore the poison, the cake is delicious!"  No.  You're going to worry and fret about the poison.  And you probably won't eat the cake.  (That is, if the cake isn't a lie...)

Quote:In terms of my own "intellectual enslavement"... I mean, really. I brought a Jew to the TLM with me on Maundy Thursday this year. Oh look at me! I'm so intellectually enslaved that I'm actively working for the conversion of Jews! Boy are my priorities out of whack!
By doing that, I hope you know, that you are acting much more Catholic than the Pope.
Reply
I'm kind of disappointed in the amount of people that are disappointed in the documents.  The amount of "its ok, but..."  and "At least its something but"  and other bitter comments.

I say Deo Gratias.  If the NO is a chastisement from God then the chastisement is beginning to lift.  This is a step in the right direction.  How can you sigh at that? 

Drop to your knees and thank God.  If the documents aren't what you think they should be (because obviously we're the best judges of what is right and wrong for Mother Church) then pray some more. 

Keep the ho-humming to yourselves.  I don't think its becoming.  .02


:pray:
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)