Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text
Bak, I honestly do understand where you are coming from. Believe it or not, I admire you and those who, in this day and age, have come to find the truth.............considering the life choices I encountered,  I honestly do not believe that I would have been so fortunate if it were not for my upbringing.

I would not hesitate to talk to your priest and tell him my thoughts - I've done it before and found it to be of no avail.

The thing they seem to be stuck on is the whole obedience thing - which I agree with - but they deny, or seem to excuse their actions because of the crises. Mind you, that is only my opinion but IMO, there can be no excuse to support the destruction of the faith (the NO) no matter what - even at the expense of the appearance of being disobedient.
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(05-16-2011, 01:32 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: So does the SSPX require, as a condition to its regularization, that the NO be abrogated beforehand? I’ve never seen that actually written anywhere in their materials but you seem to imply it. Thoughts?

I must have missed this earlier. I've been to and agree with the SSPX when they said in their sermons that those who attend the NO must confess this as a mortal sin.

If it were any other way, I would argue their point.

Why their website does not take this same stand I do not know - but the plain truth is that the NO and it's service is a parody - or caricature of the Holy Sacrifice.................that, in and of itself is a Sacrilege and due to that fact, there can be no supporting of it. 



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(05-16-2011, 02:26 PM)Stubborn Wrote: I must have missed this earlier. I've been to and agree with the SSPX when they said in their sermons that those who attend the NO must confess this as a mortal sin.

Stubborn,

In whose sermons?? Are you saying every single priest of the 500+ SSPX ordained has this belief that attending the NO is a mortal sin?? Is this their collective opinion for everyone, or to just those who attend the SSPX Mass??

I would just like to know what the OFFICIAL stance of the Society is with regard to attendance at the NO.
I, like you probably wishes it was posted on the website!
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(05-16-2011, 02:38 PM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote:
(05-16-2011, 02:26 PM)Stubborn Wrote: I must have missed this earlier. I've been to and agree with the SSPX when they said in their sermons that those who attend the NO must confess this as a mortal sin.

Stubborn,

In whose sermons?? Are you saying every single priest of the 500+ SSPX ordained has this belief that attending the NO is a mortal sin?? Is this their collective opinion for everyone, or to just those who attend the SSPX Mass??

I would just like to know what the OFFICIAL stance of the Society is with regard to attendance at the NO.
I, like you probably wishes it was posted on the website!

I heard it at the latest Parish Mission for Lent as well as a few times prior in Ohio and Kentucky SSPX chapels.

Anyway, IMO, it only makes sense.
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Wow! I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been to dozens of SSPX chapels and never once have I heard that attendance at the NO was a mortal sin. You are almost certainly making that up, and I consider it a grave detraction of the society. The NO is scandalous and may potentially jeopardize your faith, to be sure, but it is not a mortal sin. Shame on you!
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(05-16-2011, 02:48 PM)St. Drogo Wrote: Wow! I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been to dozens of SSPX chapels and never once have I heard that attendance at the NO was a mortal sin. You are almost certainly making that up, and I consider it a grave detraction of the society. The NO is scandalous and may potentially jeopardize your faith, to be sure, but it is not a mortal sin. Shame on you!

Feel free to get a hold of Fr. Alphonsus - then Fr. Dardis - - - I can offer more if you lack faith to see the obvious.
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(05-16-2011, 02:48 PM)St. Drogo Wrote: Wow! I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been to dozens of SSPX chapels and never once have I heard that attendance at the NO was a mortal sin. You are almost certainly making that up, and I consider it a grave detraction of the society. The NO is scandalous and may potentially jeopardize your faith, to be sure, but it is not a mortal sin. Shame on you!

It's certainly a mortal sin for those who know what it is and what it stands for.

A fully informed Christian will not attend a Mass that is sacrilegious and scandalous.
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Stubborn is honest as far as I can see.

I think we must conclude that within the FSSP and the within the SSPX there still exists a variation of opinions towards the NO.

I can't  imagine the SSPX "officially" believes that the Holy Father is in mortal sin for publicly celebrating the NO but I'd believe the SSPX would "forbid" their adherents from attending the NO.
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(05-16-2011, 02:51 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(05-16-2011, 02:48 PM)St. Drogo Wrote: Wow! I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been to dozens of SSPX chapels and never once have I heard that attendance at the NO was a mortal sin. You are almost certainly making that up, and I consider it a grave detraction of the society. The NO is scandalous and may potentially jeopardize your faith, to be sure, but it is not a mortal sin. Shame on you!

It's certainly a mortal sin for those who know what it is and what it stands for.

A fully informed Christian will not attend a Mass that is sacrilegious and scandalous.

I can see why the beatification of JP2 would be viewed as problematic then since he was clearly "fully informed". Same for Pope Benedict, having been at the council and privy to the machinations at the Vatican and having read Michael Davies he must be more "fully informed" than basically any of us.

Saying the Holy Father is in blatant mortal sin sounds a bit over the top to me though. Has +Williamson made the claim in his Kyrie Eleison comments or has anyone heard that from an SSPX pulpit. It seems to me that the statement is an inflation of the SSPX's position.
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(05-16-2011, 02:52 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Stubborn is honest as far as I can see.

I think we must conclude that within the FSSP and the within the SSPX there still exists a variation of opinions towards the NO.

I can't  imagine the SSPX "officially" believes that the Holy Father is in mortal sin for publicly celebrating the NO but I'd believe the SSPX would "forbid" their adherents from attending the NO.

Really, it boils down to one having the faith or not having the faith.

Does one need the pope to tell them that lust is a sin? Does one need the pope to tell them that attending a protestant service is a sin - regardless of whether or not the pope attends one.

IOW, sin is sin - regardless of who commits it - no?

The NO service is a parody - a caricature of the Holy Sacrifice........................why is that not a sin regardless of who give it the OK?
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