Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text
(05-13-2011, 11:28 AM)Scriptorium Wrote: I understand the Holy Father needs to treat lightly as he implements his reforms, but this is weak. And weakness doesn’t win the day. A few bishops will react, but where I live in Mahonyville, there will be nothing, because they do that bare minimum and the Vatican doesn’t do anything. It’s been the same story since the 60s.

The problem is, what can he really do about places like Mahonyville?  If he gets too forceful and really tries to force apostate bishops back to obedience, they may simply leave the Church and take millions of souls with them.  Maybe that'd still be the right thing to do, but I don't think it's a clear-cut decision, and it's certainly not his style.  If he started excommunicating and replacing them, would the average lay Catholic in the pew know enough to know whom to follow?  It seems like he's trying to perform a balancing act here, making it possible for younger priests and devout lay people to follow Tradition and strengthen the Church in local pockets, while not causing a schism by pushing too hard at the top.
(05-13-2011, 11:21 AM)Gerard Wrote: We won't reach a real reversal until the Novus Ordo is being again offered in a reverent manner.  Only then, when it is offered that way and the TLM is prominent will the TLM start to draw down the remaining numbers of the Novus Ordo.  My Dad has frequently said, "They did away with the Latin Mass because  if it had been offered alongside this "thing" nobody would go to the new mass."

Exactly.  One thing I think everyone here can agree on is that the TLM is superior to the NO.  Not just the liturgy itself, but all the trappings that tend to go with each -- the art, the music, the confessionals or lack thereof, the devotions that the two groups tend to do/not do, etc.  (Yes, I know somewhere in the world there's an NO being said with perfect reverence in a traditional building, with a crowd of people saying the rosary before Mass and forming long lines for Confession.  But that's the exception that proves the rule.)  So the TLM doesn't have to be forced on people the way the NO was.  It just needs to be made available -- which this document encourages further on top of Summorum Pontificum -- and people need to be educated about it.  They don't know why it's superior to the NO -- though some instinctively recognize it.  Too many today don't even know why a Catholic Mass is superior to the Protestant worship service down the street; they certainly aren't equipped to contrast and compare two Catholic rites.

The main thing I hear from Catholics new to the TLM, if they don't love it, is that it's too foreign and difficult.  They don't know why Latin matters; they don't see why they should kneel so much; they don't know there's anything wrong with girls serving or a crowd of EMHCs; they actually like "On Eagles' Wings."  To them, the TLM just seems like a bunch of people trying too hard.  They're like a guy driving a sports car who sees an Amish family riding to town in a horse and buggy.  He might think it makes a pretty picture, and he might even like to try it once to see what it's like.  But he doesn't see any reason to trade his car, that he can just hop into and go, for a slower horse that he has to feed and clean up after.

However, if he had to start brewing his own fuel for his car, and the speed limits got lowered to 10mph, and parking started to be charged by the horsepower, he might reconsider getting a horse.  Likewise, if the NO-goers I know had to learn several prayers in Latin, give up their 70s pop songs, watch the priest's back during the consecration, listen to serious homilies about sin and hell and the need for regular Confession, and tell their daughters they can't serve anymore, the TLM wouldn't seem so strange to them anymore.  Then they might be more willing to give it a chance, since it wouldn't feel like a completely different religion anymore.

So every time a priest or seminarian gets interested in tradition and orthodoxy, even if it just means he tries to pull the NO back within the rules, it's a start.  Also, the facts of time and demographics mean that, by the time the TLM-haters die out (and I mean the haters, who are mostly of an age, not the people of all ages who just don't see the point), there will be a cadre of young priests and lay people who are open to the TLM.  

I don't know whether that's Pope Benedict's master plan to phase out the "banal" "fabrication."  Maybe he really has come around to a belief in reform of the reform.  Nevertheless, that may be the way it goes.  Right now, the TLM-haters are a large group that's at the age where they have a lot of time and money to invest in getting things their way.  When that pressure is gone, things could change in a hurry -- as long as there are "ghettos" of Catholic tradition ready to reeducate the rest, and a generation of young priests without that 60s ideological bone to pick who are truly interested in serving God and shepherding their people.  These documents allow and encourage those things to develop, without freaking people out.

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Re: Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text - by Mhoram - 05-13-2011, 12:30 PM

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