Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text
#91
(05-13-2011, 11:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: There have been heretical popes in the past and the Church has managed to survive, thank God! Don't get your panties in a wad about this.

By using the word "this" you're admitting that you believe that Pope Benedict is a heretic. You keep alluding to this in your posts. I think this resembles the techniques of modernists: always skirting around the issue, never saying exactly what they think, never being able to be pinned down, always trying to appear orthodox. You're following the letter of the law (we can't call the Pope a heretic on FE) but you're completely ignoring the spirit of the law and that's what I find so dangerous and harmful.

Let's be frank: when the Pope releases a document on the TLM, many neo-Catholics will look to the Trads. You're needlessly causing scandal. That you bring the Jews up disparagingly on this thread and drag the Holy Father's name thru the mud is completely unacceptable. And that's getting my undies in a knot? How about not wanting to turn people off from Traditionalism unnecessarily. I think that's of paramount importance. 

(05-13-2011, 11:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: I'm just stating the obvious here: that you can't expect much from a pope who is clearly not known for orthodoxy and clear teaching, unless you enjoy engaging in the periodical petty games of salvaging everything a pope happens to utter.

This is really what I find upsetting - you're painting a false dichotomy here. It appears you offer two choices: Pope Benedict isn't orthodox (which is like saying he's not Catholic) or we have to be neo-Catholic Pope devotees. There is always a middle road. I mean the Pope writes a 200-page book and folks get tied up in knots over a few lines. It was the same with Verbum Domini - the document has many excellent passages, encouraging the faithful to pray the Angelus, for example, which is an extremely traditional practice, yet that text was basically ignored on FE except some folks were going bonkers about female Lectors. But in UE we have ironclad assurance from the Holy Father that altar girls and female Lectors cannot be introduced into the TLM. So there's a middle way. I don't like everything the Pope does but I'm not going to dismiss him as a heretic or automatically assume that I know better than he does on complex controversial issues. 

(05-13-2011, 11:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Universae Ecclesiae is just another demonstration of the shady conciliar reasoning of the past 50 years.

If you believe that, I'd sure love to hear why. This subforum Is called "Catholic News, Discussion, History, and Culture" but I don't hear much discussion from you, just a sort of "woe is me, when will the church wake up and become as brilliant as I am" attitude. I know you have at least on online persona of being self-effacing but you sure have zero trouble telling us how heretical the Pope is and how lost 99.9% of the church has become. That's most humans do - they dismiss the Pope out of hand as irrelevant so that they don't have to listen to him. It's hard to submit to leadership. It's easier and more enjoyable to "live by our own convictions" but taken to its logical conclusion that becomes a Protestant ethos. 

So if you have something specific to say abbot UE, as in discussion, not pontificating, then feel free. 

(05-13-2011, 11:35 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Finally, your irrational hysteria about anti-semitism reveals more about your own intellectual enslavement to the new order than any of my perceived prejudices. It's a sad state of affairs: the "fear of the Jews" has been present since Pentecost but it's ruling the stage since Vatican II.

Vetus, I know this is a story you like to tell yourself and maybe you believe it a little more each time you say it aloud but things are so much more complicated than you'd like them to be. 

That you even bring up the Jews on a thread that has nothing to do with them makes you look far more hysterical than I do. And you do this in thread after thread. It's like there's this need to prove that the Jews are the root of all evil. 

In terms of my own "intellectual enslavement"... I mean, really. I brought a Jew to the TLM with me on Maundy Thursday this year. Oh look at me! I'm so intellectually enslaved that I'm actively working for the conversion of Jews! Boy are my priorities out of whack!
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Re: Universae Ecclesiae released - full English text - by Bakuryokuso - 05-14-2011, 06:28 AM



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