Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples
#74
(05-15-2011, 02:08 PM)B of Navarre Wrote:
(05-14-2011, 10:14 PM)wallflower Wrote: While I am curious about why people speak of two Churches, I can't say that this article by Jean Madiran does much for me. This was written pro Marcel Lefebvre, but did the Archbishop himself speak this way?

Here are some quotes of Archbishop Lefebvre:

“For the problem of Écône is the problem of thousands and millions of Christian consciences, distressed, divided and torn for the past ten years by the agonizing dilemma:  whether to obey and risk losing one’s faith, or disobey and keep one’s faith intact; whether to obey and join the destruction of the Church, whether to accept the reformed Liberal Church, or to go on belonging to the Catholic Church

“It is because Écône is at the heart of this crucial problem, seldom til now posed with such fullness or gravity, that so many people are looking to this house which has resolutely made its choice of belonging to the eternal Church and of refusing to belong to the reformed Liberal Church.”

3 September 1975 Letter to Friends and Benefactors (No.9)
p. 144 - Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre, Part One, by Michael Davies.
__________________________

“…since they have put us out of an official Church which is not the real Church, [but] an official Church which has been infested with Modernism; and so we believed in the duty of disobedience, if indeed it was disobedience!  To obey, but to obey the immemorial Church, to obey all the popes, to obey the whole Catholic Church…”

1980 Ordination Sermon, 27 June 1980
p. 210 - Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre, Volume Three, by Michael Davies
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“Well then, we understand.  We now know with whom we have to deal.  We know perfectly well that we are dealing with a “diabolical hand” which is located at Rome, and which is demanding, by obedience, the destruction of the Church!  And this is why we heave the right and the duty to refuse this obedience.  …I believe that I have th right to ask these gentlemen who present themselves in offices which were occupied by Cardinals…..it seems to me that I wouuld have th reight to ask them, “Are you with the Catholic Church?”  “Are you the Catholic Church?” “With whom am I dealing?” If I am dealing with someone who has a pact with Masonry, have I the right to speak with such a person?  Have I the duty to listen to them and to obey them?”

1978 Ordination Sermon
p. 209 - Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre, Volume Two, by Michael Davies
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“It is easy to think that whoever opposes the Council and its new Gospel would be considered as excommunicated, as outside communion with the Church.  But one may well ask them, communion with what Church? They would answer, no doubt, with the Conciliar Church.” 
p. xiii I Accuse the Council, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre


Also, although in this famous one he does not refer to 2 "churches," he does refer to 2 Romes.

Quote:Declaration of November 21, 1974:

    “We adhere with all our heart and all our soul to Catholic Rome, guardian of the Catholic Faith and of the traditions necessary for the maintaining of that Faith, to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and of truth. On the contrary, we refuse, and we have always refused, to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies, which showed itself clearly in the Second Vatican Council and in the reforms that issued from it.”
    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

I could add more quotes if I had time, but hopefully you get the idea.

Thank you, that gives me food for thought. What I don't like about the terminology is that is seems to assume or state that all people involved with the NO are formal heretics, and I disagree with that. And yet, the other Church is spelled with a capital "C" to indicate being a part of the True Church. It seems so confusing as to what is meant exactly. I am curious about how the Archbishop would have explained his use of two Churches, if it would have been along the lines of the Bishop's letter or not. I wonder why this terminology never trickled down into the SSPX a little more? Unless I haven't been paying as much attention as I thought I was, that's a possibility. I am more drawn to other topics.
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 07:44 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 08:52 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 09:37 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by salus - 05-14-2011, 10:14 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 12:58 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by PeterII - 05-15-2011, 02:02 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 07:50 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Gerard - 05-15-2011, 10:17 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Gerard - 05-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:29 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:38 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:10 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:51 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 12:43 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Justin - 05-15-2011, 07:22 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Justin - 05-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:49 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:50 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:54 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by PeterII - 05-16-2011, 12:21 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:24 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:27 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:31 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by FHM310 - 05-16-2011, 08:40 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 08:54 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 09:59 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by wallflower - 05-16-2011, 10:09 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 12:37 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:13 PM



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