Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples
#76
(05-15-2011, 08:42 PM)JMartyr Wrote: A new mass, new catechism, new code of canon law, new formation of priests, new rules for religious, new relationships with the enemies of the Church, etc.,etc., etc.  How much more of the Church can change before it becomes something else? All of this is very frightening and confusing to say the least.  I know the gates of hell will never prevail, but maybe like our Lord's passion, it will seem all is lost.

It seems to me, at least generally, these kinds of things are pretty par for the course after an ecumenical Council. While the very existence of a code of canon law is a 20th century novelty, most ecumenical Councils have prmulgated canons which superceded many canons currently in use or which had fallen into desuetude over tine. The Council of Trent, the various Lateran Councils, and the like all did this. The same has happened with religious rules and even new catechisms. For example, after Trent there was a new catechism and the creation of another new catechism was on the agenda at Vatican I (but it was cut short before they got to it). While the introduction of another distinct Missal is unique to a post-concilliar period, the post-Tridentine era did produce a new Vulgate Bible, which was horrendous and later scrapped as well as a revised calendar (also essentially scrapped later). 

In regards to the new relationship with the Church's enemies, when there is a belief of a good chance of reunion of separated Christians, the tone does often change. This was the case before the reunions at the Council of Constance and Florence, and even during the pre-Tridentine period when there was widespread belief that the rift would be healed. The problem today--besides those who have committed certain exaggerations and abuses in the name of seeking unity--the reasons for optimism in regard to mass corporate reunion do not seem present anymore in most cases.

In regards to non-Christians, seeking mutual practical relationships in a spirit of good will are not new either. St. Gregory VII did this where he could with Muslim leaders, and only had recourse to war when that failed. Granted, what  is done today is definitely done to a greater extent (and again there are definitely exaggerations and abuses), but war and blood-shed had not happened to the extent they did in the 20th century. If you check out a lot of the war-time and post-war writings and allocutions of Pius XII, you'll see a lot more reaching out to anyone of good will who believed in Christ or even just in God. When they were being persecuted side by side and fighting side by side with others, those others tend to become less like enemies and more like friends. These events made an impact on people, especially Europeans. One of the reasons I think Archbishop Lefebrve was not affected in the same way is he was in Africa for practically this entire period—if I remember correctly he even says as much in his Open Letter.

In regards to how much can change and the Church still remain the Church, while this could never happen, I think the envelope was pushed pretty much as far as it could go without crossing the line in the post-Vatican II period. Most of the things which were changeable were. While these things had been changed before at one point or another in history, the fact that this happened so rapidly during a time of general confusion really shook the faith of a lot of folks.

Honestly, I think if the new Missal had not been promulgated (and the other “customs” introduced that went along with it—wreckovated churches, bad music, bad vestments, etc,), very few people would have this impression despite all the other stuff--it wouldn't seem as confusing. They might still have had a problem with the actions of certain churchmen, but those things would not have been deal-breakers in regards to giving up on their local parish or the greater institutional Church in general.
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 07:44 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 08:52 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-14-2011, 09:37 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by salus - 05-14-2011, 10:14 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 12:58 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by PeterII - 05-15-2011, 02:02 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 07:50 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Gerard - 05-15-2011, 10:17 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Gerard - 05-15-2011, 10:22 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:29 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 10:38 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:10 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 11:51 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Meg - 05-15-2011, 12:43 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Justin - 05-15-2011, 07:22 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Justin - 05-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:49 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:50 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-15-2011, 08:54 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by PeterII - 05-16-2011, 12:21 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:24 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:27 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 08:31 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by FHM310 - 05-16-2011, 08:40 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 08:54 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 09:59 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by SaintSebastian - 05-16-2011, 10:34 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 12:37 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by Walty - 05-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Re: Bishop Williamson- Rotten Apples - by JayneK - 05-16-2011, 11:13 PM



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