So, does the pope really smoke?
#31
You can get cancer from smoking pipes and/or cigars. It will start in your throat or mouth; that's the only difference. One of my neighbor's got cancer from using a pipe. They had to remove part of his tongue at one point.

C.
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#32
(05-17-2011, 02:41 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-17-2011, 02:31 PM)TeaGuyTom Wrote: If these rumors are indeed true, it helps to understand the couple of strokes he has suffered in recent years. But I highly doubt it. This is the pontiff who loves orange fanta and wanted to spend his retirement sitting in his garden drinking tea with his cats. Hardly sounds like a chain smoker.

He likes orange Fanta? Now THAT I can dig.

Me, too!  Italian wine is great but sometimes you don't want wine, water, or Coke.  You can get Fanta in most trattorias and bars in italy and it's actually better than American Fanta, probably has cane sugar instead of the insidious invidious High Fructose Corn Syrup.



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#33
It does have sugar but in significantly lower amounts. It's a sort of carbonated orange juice. It's like orangina but better.
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#34
Alright, it looks like no one here knows whether the pope smokes or not. I might have to write to him myself if I want any answers. :p
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#35
I just love this. In every other cancer there is always a genetic component, but never with smoking. Common knowledge says that smokers always get cancer, or heart disease, or emphysema. Everyone else gets sick, but smokers are evil. Never mind that we all must die and that means diseases, but no thank you very much it isn't the fault of those that do not smoke. I see on the horizon another category of evil people coming that's the overweight. In the future they will be villified and their eating will become the reason for every thing that they get. I'm reminded of a childhood chum's mother. She was a "for real" peasant. They had spent some years in American internment camps before being allowed to come to the USA. He was born in one of them. She had never been educated and was a font of old wives tales which she considered the absolute truth. My pal is a thoraxic surgeon, and the head of his region's AMA. His mom used to warn us that eating sugar caused diabetes. As she fed him and all of his young pals German Chocolate cake and cold Dortmunder.  He spent  tons of time explaining that diabetes does not come from eating sugar. She never believed him, God rest her soul. 

tim
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#36
(05-18-2011, 09:36 AM)timoose Wrote: I just love this. In every other cancer there is always a genetic component, but never with smoking. Common knowledge says that smokers always get cancer, or heart disease, or emphysema. Everyone else gets sick, but smokers are evil. Never mind that we all must die and that means diseases, but no thank you very much it isn't the fault of those that do not smoke. I see on the horizon another category of evil people coming that's the overweight. In the future they will be villified and their eating will become the reason for every thing that they get. I'm reminded of a childhood chum's mother. She was a "for real" peasant. They had spent some years in American internment camps before being allowed to come to the USA. He was born in one of them. She had never been educated and was a font of old wives tales which she considered the absolute truth. My pal is a thoraxic surgeon, and the head of his region's AMA. His mom used to warn us that eating sugar caused diabetes. As she fed him and all of his young pals German Chocolate cake and cold Dortmunder.  He spent  tons of time explaining that diabetes does not come from eating sugar. She never believed him, God rest her soul. 

tim

Annoying people who jump to the conclusions you describe exist, but that doesn't nullify the health issue.

Cancer is caused by any factors that increase the chance of certain mutations, as well as genetics (because you can inherit the risky mutations).

So genetics influence lung cancers, especially certain types, but smoking hugely influences other types.

Chewing tobacco / snuff / pipes / cigars definitely lead to higher (much higher) rates of oral cancers.  Some of those cancers are almost unheard of in non-smokers.

There other examples, it's not "all genetics except lung cancer."  Promiscuity can lead to certain viral transmissions (which can happen without direct promiscuity, e.g. if a sexual partner if promiscous or that partner's past partner was promiscuous, then even a virgin who marries such a person can get one of the viruses) and this can lead to cervical cancer.

Alcohol increases the risk of certain cancers.

Eating smokes meats and cheeses.

Increased exposure to harmful ultraviolet radiation.

Lack of fiber even!

As to diabetes, eating sugar doesn't directly cause it, but being overweight absolutely does increase the risk, very much, of Type 2 Diabetes.

So to repeat: annoying people who are anti-smoker (not just anti-smoking) or anti-fat people instead of pro-fat people (if you are pro-fat people you should want them to be healthier but not villify them) exist, and are annoying. 

But that doesn't mean we should glory in what is not good.  God created a certain human form with certain needs, and excessive weight is a distortion of that form.  Excessive sweets or fats or other fake junk foods and what not are obviously not so good.  I speak as one with a weakness who weighs too much and eats too much of this stuff: I do *not* look down on people who are just like me and struggle with it.

But even though I am chubby and eat too much fat and sugar, I do not try to justify it.  I stand up and say, I will try to do better, with God's grace I will treat the body He gave me with love and care, that I may live as long as He wills and that I may do His will as long as I live.

:)

BTW I also used to smoke but quit.  It is not a moral issue, but it is disgusting to those who don't smoke and it is objectively dangerous.  Even if you can smoke and be a faithful and good person, I still think it's *good* to quit smoking.  It's better not to eat junk food.  And it's better to exercise.  Discipline, mortification, and all that.
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#37
One can mitigate the bad effects through moderation but that will  not guarantee you will not get sick and die. That's my point. I have two friends that got oral cancer, both had surgery, and I think radiation, both no longer care to eat very much due to the pain. Both did not smoke cigarettes. They gave them up years ago but smoked dope. I'd bet the dope had more to do with it., more than cigarettes or second hand smoke. 

tim
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#38
(05-18-2011, 12:32 PM)timoose Wrote: One can mitigate the bad effects through moderation but that will  not guarantee you will not get sick and die. That's my point. I have two friends that got oral cancer, both had surgery, and I think radiation, both no longer care to eat very much due to the pain. Both did not smoke cigarettes. They gave them up years ago but smoked dope. I'd bet the dope had more to do with it., more than cigarettes or second hand smoke. 

tim

True, moderation applies.  And anyone can get cancer, anyone can get hit by a car.  Your point is a corrective to the erroneous idea that we can control everything by not smoking and eating a certain way.

However the other extreme, that we cannot control everything so we should control nothing and should be proud what we do even if it isn't good for us, is also an erroneous view.

Maybe I should have asked this in the smoking thread, but for smokers out there I wonder, even though it's not a moral issue, and you plan to keep smoking ... would you want your children to start smoking?  If they asked you, would you discourage them?
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#39
The way I see it is my heart has only a certain number of beats before it dies. If I do exercise that will increase the number of beats therefore reducing the time I have to live. So therefore, exercise is hazardous to your health.

Seriously though, I had a good friend of mine that was an absolute health nut. He ran all the time and lived a very healthy lifestyle. He didn't smoke and as I said was in great health. He ended up getting cancer and dying in his 40s.
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#40
I agree New York, we're on the same page. It's just I see a danger starting with propaganda about a cult of health. I saw a program about three years ago about how it is a new pagan religion in Germany. I think I see it starting here, with the emphasis which Obamacare has put on prevention. There is a curious commercial here about a school teacher that invested wisely for her retirement and has still got plenty of money at 180 something.This commercial plays into the notion that we are extending our life span.

tim
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