Priest Sex-Abuse Case hits Church Of Pope's Adviser.....
#11
Priests having sex with teenage boys has been going on for 2,000 years.  It's nothing new.  There was no ideal time in the Church, there has always been the wheat and the chaff. This is absolutely an institutional problem, and it all starts in the seminary.  If people knew what was really going on in the seminaries before Vatican II and continuing up until today they would be absolutely scandalized.  I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about institutional repression (not suppression, but repression) and denial.  Until these problems are addressed in the seminaries, you will continue to have these types of problems.  And no, the trad seminaries aren't exempt.  It's institutional and has nothing to do with Latin or cassocks or anything like that. Sorry but its not quite so simplistic.

There's a problem in the Church alright and it has nothing to do with Vatican II or the new Mass.  Convenient scapegoats but sadly, a distraction from the real issue.  It's a seminary problem.  Look there and you will find the root cause.  But that's not a place where Catholics, NO and Trad, really want to look.  Some rocks shouldn't be overturned.    Lets keep our heads in the sand and pretend it's about a word being removed from the Mass 50 years ago.
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#12
I would like to here more of your idea DrBombay.  The horror stories I have heard from a couple of priests concerning their seminary time leave me dumbfounded.

Catholic Truth Society is releasing a new pamphlet next month to counter the USCCB p.o.s..

http://ctscatholiccompass.org/category/sex-abuse-crisis/?utm_source=Catholic+Truth+Society+Newsletter&utm_campaign=0851ef763c-Email_News_2011_05&utm_medium=email

The Sexual Abuse Crisis: Who is to Blame?

The scourge of sexual abuse has convulsed the Catholic Church over the last decade. Victims of abuse have come forward in Britain, Ireland, the United States, Germany, Holland and Belgium to describe their ordeals at the hands of priests and others in authority.

Their suffering is real and it has led to a lot of soul-searching in the Church and, thankfully, the arrival of a new approach to tackling the problem. Many Catholics, however, remain confused about the nature of the crisis and its extent.

The Catholic Church and the Sexual Abuse Crisis, a forthcoming publication by the Catholic Truth Society, a publisher to the Holy See, offers Catholics and others a reliable guide to help them make sense of what is really happening.

Written by Dr Pravin Thevathasan, a UK consultant psychiatrist with experience of working with sex offenders and their victims, it acknowledges the failures of the Church and the real suffering of victims before it locates the genesis of the crisis in the trendy but destructive and false theories of such practitioners as Alfred Kinsey. The author uses statistics to demonstrate how levels of abuse peaked during the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s and 1970s. He uses facts to illustrate the nature of the abuse and to draw profiles of the offenders. He also uses evidence to show that:

•    The crisis was not one of “paedophile priests” but largely of homosexual priests, with the vast majority of cases involving adolescent and pubescent boys rather than pre-pubescent children;
•    Celibacy is not to blame as abuse figures of Catholic clergy compare similarly with clergy in other religions and denominations in which clerics can marry;
•    There may be an anti-Catholic agenda, given the repeated and unjust attempts to implicate Pope Benedict XVI in the crisis, suggesting that the Church may be a target because of its moral teachings.

There are also sections on Church teaching on child sex abuse, what precisely is happening in some of the worst affected countries in the world and how the Church is responding to what has become one of its most severe problems of this age.

Fergal Martin, General Secretary of the Catholic Truth Society, said:

“This matter on so many levels can only be considered a tragedy. Pope Benedict has taken a lead on identifying underlying causes and insisting on full and complete repentance and prevention of these wrongs ever happening again. What this text achieves is to shed a penetrating light on a range of demanding and inter-linked questions concerning clerical abuse. The author, with all the skill of an experienced clinician, provides reasoned, tough and honest responses to each of them – which is of immense service to anyone who desires to understand what has happened, why, and what steps can and are being taken to resolve and heal, hopefully once and for all, this harrowing reality.”

Dr Thevathasan said:

“The sex abuse crisis has had terrible consequences. First and foremost we think of the innocent victims and their families. We also think of the very real damage this has done to the reputation of the Catholic Church.

“I show that the abuse crisis needs to be put in its context. The vast majority of priests are entirely innocent of this crime. The abuse of children is far from uncommon in society and, ultimately, abusive priests come from this society. That is why candidates for the priesthood must be selected with care. The fact that the crisis has occurred within the Church suggests that the Church has assimilated a certain spirit of worldliness.

“As a consultant psychiatrist of 15 years, I have looked after both sex offenders and victims. As a Catholic, I have seen the effects that the crisis has had on the Church. I have no doubt that the abuse of children leads to very significant psychological consequences. As part of my research, I examined Psychiatry books written in the 1970s and was surprised by some of the views then expressed. It would appear that many, but not all, clinicians then had opinions that have been discredited.

“I also show that it is unjust and wrong to claim that this crisis is largely a problem afflicting the Church. Indeed the research suggests that child abuse has a far higher incidence in other institutions.

“I discuss the safeguarding procedures now in place in the Church. It goes without saying that such instruments are only as good as the people who make use of them. The Catholic Church in the United Kingdom has been commended in implementing such procedures and is regarded as an example of good practice. However, there can be no grounds for complacency.

“When I asked a cardinal for his opinion of the crisis, he suggested that the problem is ultimately a spiritual one. We need to pray for good, solid, holy vocations to the priesthood.”
Commendations

“I feel that it is outstanding. It is a lucid and complete review of a difficult issue for the Church. He summarises the history and suggests that following Vatican II there was a breakdown in ascetical discipline. Finally the article ends with the optimism of Pope Benedict. The Catholic Truth Society and Dr. Thevathasan are to be commended.”

Dr Patrick Guinan, University of Illinois, who has written extensively on the psychology behind the sex abuse crisis.

“I think this is an absolutely brilliant piece of work and richly deserves publication. While … the criticism [made of the Church by certain people] is out of proportion and unreasonable in many aspects, the reality is that we must be terribly humble and penitent too. This is a very shameful thing that has happened in our Church and we cannot be proud.”

Dr Adrian Treloar, consultant psychiatrist and a Catholic.
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#13
(05-27-2011, 09:02 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Priests having sex with teenage boys has been going on for 2,000 years.  It's nothing new.  There was no ideal time in the Church, there has always been the wheat and the chaff. This is absolutely an institutional problem, and it all starts in the seminary.  If people knew what was really going on in the seminaries before Vatican II and continuing up until today they would be absolutely scandalized.  I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about institutional repression (not suppression, but repression) and denial.  Until these problems are addressed in the seminaries, you will continue to have these types of problems.  And no, the trad seminaries aren't exempt.  It's institutional and has nothing to do with Latin or cassocks or anything like that. Sorry but its not quite so simplistic.

There's a problem in the Church alright and it has nothing to do with Vatican II or the new Mass.  Convenient scapegoats but sadly, a distraction from the real issue.  It's a seminary problem.  Look there and you will find the root cause.  But that's not a place where Catholics, NO and Trad, really want to look.  Some rocks shouldn't be overturned.     Lets keep our heads in the sand and pretend it's about a word being removed from the Mass 50 years ago.
So what's the answer doc then? where do we start in the seminaries? What do we look for?

How bout some good ol fashioned be-headings to any pervert who lays a finger on a child. How bout that, that would be a good start.

With a few heads lopped off, maybe the rest would get the message and go into another line of work and practice their wares somewhere else.

Maybe I shouldn't talk like this, but I'm really at the edge of my patience with this pedophile crap. Some drastic measures need to be done.


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#14
Check this vortex video out. It explains how that it is more about ephebophilia than paedophilia


Click on the link and get ready for bad news
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#15
I too am at the edge of patience with all this. There simply isn't any need to let it become as big as it is. To be sure, there is anti-Catholic bias that fuels the emphasis laid on the Church and the simultaneous lack of attention paid to child abuse in other sects and other walks of life, but it has nonetheless become a bigger issue in the Church now than in the days well before VII. Be it before or after, there's no excuse for it.

Like Dr. Bombay said, it begins in seminary. It's analogous to teaching children well in school so that they graduate to become decent, productive citizens; train seminarians thoroughly to be good, noble, faithful priests and that's what you'll get. The degree to which the Church fails at this is the degree to which child abuse (as well as other problems) become bigger.
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#16
(05-27-2011, 07:42 PM)verenaerin Wrote:Things were corrupt before Vat II happened. Otherwise- it never would have been successful. If you read the Salasian Dutch Superiors interview on a previous thread, he specifically talked about orphanages in the 50s and 60s.

Will there be in the Salesian Order any more relationships between older people and children?

Just imagine that in the 50s/60s all lived together in 's Heerenberg. We were all away from our family and had only each other. Adults and boys - there was no woman to see - then lived together and some things bloom.


I believe this man is now in his 70s. I do not think that this type of wide scale corruption existed before the 1900s. I am sure he is not alone in his way of thinking. There are lots of things hat FE have discussed about how this type of corruption is tied into Pope Leo XIII's vision, Fatima, Akita, etc.

At this point there are only two things we can do. #1- Never let our children alone with any adult- be it priest or teacher, period. From my stand point, it's just not worth the risk. #2- Know and practice our devotions and get to Mass as much as possible.

Of course things were corrupt; they always have been.

But using such blanket statements as "priests having sex with teenage boys has been going on for 2,000 years... It's nothing new" (as another poster put it) seeks to misrepresent the point, trivialize something of unprecedented magnitude in the Church's history, and appeal to events sprinkled throughout 2000 years of Church history to pretend that there's nothing unusual about them all happening together--and persisting--all at once.

Traditional Catholics seem to have two reactions: They either get mad, or they learn to cope by simply making it sound like those who are angry are overreacting. To them, the only way to cope is to pretend that such scandal is but a matter of course--that Rome has always handled these problems by forsaking God and placing faith in modern psychology. The problem is that it's not routine and never was routine. A cleric who dared do such a thing in times past spent the rest of his life doing penance in an isolated monastery somewhere, not receiving psychological counseling and then moved somewhere else to do it all over again. When they were reported, they were dealt with harshly, strictly, and immediately so that no-one would get away with doing it again once it was known. These things would never had happened if they had listened to the clergymen who had reported the pedophiles to Rome in the first place. They were warned (some went to JPII specifically) and they did nothing.

Yes, this is an outrage. There will always be pedophiles in the Church, but those pedophiles won't stop their abuse of children until Rome starts taking the faith seriously.
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#17
(05-27-2011, 09:02 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Priests having sex with teenage boys has been going on for 2,000 years.  It's nothing new.  There was no ideal time in the Church, there has always been the wheat and the chaff. This is absolutely an institutional problem, and it all starts in the seminary.  If people knew what was really going on in the seminaries before Vatican II and continuing up until today they would be absolutely scandalized.  I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about institutional repression (not suppression, but repression) and denial.  Until these problems are addressed in the seminaries, you will continue to have these types of problems.  And no, the trad seminaries aren't exempt.  It's institutional and has nothing to do with Latin or cassocks or anything like that. Sorry but its not quite so simplistic.

There's a problem in the Church alright and it has nothing to do with Vatican II or the new Mass.  Convenient scapegoats but sadly, a distraction from the real issue.  It's a seminary problem.  Look there and you will find the root cause.  But that's not a place where Catholics, NO and Trad, really want to look.  Some rocks shouldn't be overturned.     Lets keep our heads in the sand and pretend it's about a word being removed from the Mass 50 years ago.

Dr. Bombay: You're absolutely right its a seminary problem. But for some weird reason I have never really heard of SSPX/FSSP/ICK priests in this kind of mess. Why do you think that is? Well I can only guess that is because you have holy rectors like Bishop Richard Williamson who used to be the rector at St. Thomas Aquinas (SSPX) seminary for years. I have a hard time believing that guy tolerated homosexuality.
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#18

[/quote]

Dr. Bombay: You're absolutely right its a seminary problem. But for some weird reason I have never really heard of SSPX/FSSP/ICK priests in this kind of mess. Why do you think that is? Well I can only guess that is because you have holy rectors like Bishop Richard Williamson who used to be the rector at St. Thomas Aquinas (SSPX) seminary for years. I have a hard time believing that guy tolerated homosexuality.
[/quote]

Well said. Here, here!
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#19
(05-28-2011, 01:14 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Dr. Bombay: You're absolutely right its a seminary problem. But for some weird reason I have never really heard of SSPX/FSSP/ICK priests in this kind of mess. Why do you think that is? Well I can only guess that is because you have holy rectors like Bishop Richard Williamson who used to be the rector at St. Thomas Aquinas (SSPX) seminary for years. I have a hard time believing that guy tolerated homosexuality.

It's analogous to the differences between your average Army recruit and an Army Ranger. The former is aware of the service and has joined up but might not be of the same stellar caliber that the Ranger is, particularly when differences in training and emphasis are considered.

Traditionalist groups like the SSPX, the ICKSP, and so on, are like the Army Rangers. Seminarians there know they can just go the NO route and take it easier, but they choose not to. They choose the more difficult path of tradition. As such, they're probably less likely to be the sort who fall prey to such sins as pedophilia because they're already set on a more serious spiritual path.

In former days, when both lax and serious seminarians had only the Tridentine Mass and the traditional Church, then the differences might have been harder to spot.
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#20
(05-28-2011, 01:14 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Dr. Bombay: You're absolutely right its a seminary problem. But for some weird reason I have never really heard of SSPX/FSSP/ICK priests in this kind of mess. Why do you think that is? Well I can only guess that is because you have holy rectors like Bishop Richard Williamson who used to be the rector at St. Thomas Aquinas (SSPX) seminary for years. I have a hard time believing that guy tolerated homosexuality.
You are obviously not familiar with things that happened in this regard in Trad circles. Unfortunately I have to tell you that you are wrong.
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