Going to hell for rejecting vocation?
#51
(06-03-2011, 07:12 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:02 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 02:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:58 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:39 PM)Aragon Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:37 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:29 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Well another thing that I did today was read quotes from latin fathers like St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Jerome, etc. Reading them it does seem like marriage is a sort of consolation prize.

In fact some of those saints said the only good they see in marriage is that it has the potential to produce more virgins.



Interesting.

You are not judged by what vocation you chose.  You are judged by how you fulfill it.  Do not worry about going to hell simply because you got married or became a priest.  These things in and of themselves do not amount to Heaven or Hell.  

St. Augustine had a bit of a warped view of sex. He spent so many years being a man-whore that when he converted he went from one extreme end of the spectrum to another.

Are we allowed to believe that as catholics? Because I came to the same conclusion as yourself but I feel guilty about it because St. Augustine was proably top 3 one of the most influential saints. If i start to criticize his views on sex (As the orthodox do) it starts down a slippery slope to doubting all his other views.

St. Augustine was not perfect.  He, like all in the communion of saints, has a lot to offer.  But he was not infallible.


I can't believe this lack of respect for a great holy saint who is already high up in Heaven, coming from some people who might not even make it to Purgatory!  Saint Agustin, dear friend and brother in the Lord, please pray for us sinners who think we know something and know nothing!  Thank you dear saint!

I think St Augustine would be more concerned with a person who argued him to be infallible than one who pointed out (and this pov is consistent with Church teaching) that he isn't.  St Augustine was a critical thinker.  Far be it from me to presume to know the mind of a Doctor of the Church but I think he would appreciate the objective and true statement that WRC has made.

Yes, St Augustine pray for us.

Saint Augustine was not 100% right all the time.  I am simply aghast at the lack of respect shown towards a Doctor of the Holy Roman Catholic Church who is in Heaven right now holding a conversation with Saint Thomas Aquinas.
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#52
(06-03-2011, 07:24 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:12 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 07:02 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 02:34 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:58 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:39 PM)Aragon Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:37 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(05-31-2011, 08:29 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: Well another thing that I did today was read quotes from latin fathers like St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Jerome, etc. Reading them it does seem like marriage is a sort of consolation prize.

In fact some of those saints said the only good they see in marriage is that it has the potential to produce more virgins.



Interesting.

You are not judged by what vocation you chose.  You are judged by how you fulfill it.  Do not worry about going to hell simply because you got married or became a priest.  These things in and of themselves do not amount to Heaven or Hell.  

St. Augustine had a bit of a warped view of sex. He spent so many years being a man-whore that when he converted he went from one extreme end of the spectrum to another.

Are we allowed to believe that as catholics? Because I came to the same conclusion as yourself but I feel guilty about it because St. Augustine was proably top 3 one of the most influential saints. If i start to criticize his views on sex (As the orthodox do) it starts down a slippery slope to doubting all his other views.

St. Augustine was not perfect.  He, like all in the communion of saints, has a lot to offer.  But he was not infallible.


I can't believe this lack of respect for a great holy saint who is already high up in Heaven, coming from some people who might not even make it to Purgatory!  Saint Agustin, dear friend and brother in the Lord, please pray for us sinners who think we know something and know nothing!  Thank you dear saint!

I think St Augustine would be more concerned with a person who argued him to be infallible than one who pointed out (and this pov is consistent with Church teaching) that he isn't.  St Augustine was a critical thinker.  Far be it from me to presume to know the mind of a Doctor of the Church but I think he would appreciate the objective and true statement that WRC has made.

Yes, St Augustine pray for us.

Saint Augustine was not 100% right all the time.  I am simply aghast at the lack of respect shown towards a Doctor of the Holy Roman Catholic Church who is in Heaven right now holding a conversation with Saint Thomas Aquinas.

I don't see anyone disrespecting the beloved Doctor.  WRC simply said he is fallible.  And that is true.  Where do you see disrespect to him?
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#53
I agree with your dad: experience in the world is a good thing if you want to be a priest working in the world. Even if you disagree, you should give your father the benefit of the doubt. If you actually said his input was "ridiculous", I think he would have been in his rights to slap you across the face.

Furthermore, if you were a priest giving me advice, and I had found out you became a priest because of fear, I wouldn't take you seriously at all. A good priest in m estimation is manly and fearless as a soldier, not a servile coward. And if I were a non-Christian looking into a new faith, I wouldn't be interested in "your god" at all.

Anyway, from your posts you sound like an insolent kid who's puffed up with spiritual pride and  thinks he's wiser than his parents. I could be wrong or overly harsh, because it reminds me of how I used to talk to my mom (who's a Protestant). If I'm right in my assessment, then for the love of God, calm down, do less talking and more listening with regard to parents. Even if they're wrong. You won't change their minds by arguing, only by deeds.
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#54
(06-03-2011, 10:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I agree with your dad: experience in the world is a good thing if you want to be a priest working in the world. Even if you disagree, you should give your father the benefit of the doubt. If you actually said his input was "ridiculous", I think he would have been in his rights to slap you across the face.

Furthermore, if you were a priest giving me advice, and I had found out you became a priest because of fear, I wouldn't take you seriously at all. A good priest in m estimation is manly and fearless as a soldier, not a servile coward. And if I were a non-Christian looking into a new faith, I wouldn't be interested in "your god" at all.

Anyway, from your posts you sound like an insolent kid who's puffed up with spiritual pride and  thinks he's wiser than his parents. I could be wrong or overly harsh, because it reminds me of how I used to talk to my mom (who's a Protestant). If I'm right in my assessment, then for the love of God, calm down, do less talking and more listening with regard to parents. Even if they're wrong. You won't change their minds by arguing, only by deeds.

Ya that could be very well a good description of myself. I am not happy I am miserable right now when thinking about God and just how easy it is to fall into mortal sin. I am stone faced all the time in mass and when I think about God. I feel guilty about doing basic liesure activities like basketball and going to a movie. I am definetly not attracting any converts by my cheerfullness. The last week or so I have had suicidal thoughts and have contemplated and just giving up altogether. I hold a lot of anger against the church for mandatory clerical celibacy, I feel its a double standard to deny heterosexual married men the priesthood but not polygraphy men to make sure homosexually attracted men dont enter the priesthood. Whats the point of me giving up sex/wife/kids if I am surrounded by a few gay priests who didnt make the same sacrifice I did? They would absolutely disgust me.  Probably a better chance I may be called to be a monk and not a priest with all this interior sadness/despair/depression. Right now its a beautiful day in my city and I cant even smile driving because I feel guilty about how the world is so messed up and the conciliar church is dragging souls to hell. Now I know how Francisco Marto felt

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#55
This won't be a popular suggestion, but you could just live life for now, and if you still are called to serve God at 35, you can be ordained as a deacon. A lesser calling than priesthood, but still essential, and it is permitted for a deacon to be a married man in the Latin Rite currently.
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#56
(06-03-2011, 11:30 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 10:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: I agree with your dad: experience in the world is a good thing if you want to be a priest working in the world. Even if you disagree, you should give your father the benefit of the doubt. If you actually said his input was "ridiculous", I think he would have been in his rights to slap you across the face.

Furthermore, if you were a priest giving me advice, and I had found out you became a priest because of fear, I wouldn't take you seriously at all. A good priest in m estimation is manly and fearless as a soldier, not a servile coward. And if I were a non-Christian looking into a new faith, I wouldn't be interested in "your god" at all.

Anyway, from your posts you sound like an insolent kid who's puffed up with spiritual pride and  thinks he's wiser than his parents. I could be wrong or overly harsh, because it reminds me of how I used to talk to my mom (who's a Protestant). If I'm right in my assessment, then for the love of God, calm down, do less talking and more listening with regard to parents. Even if they're wrong. You won't change their minds by arguing, only by deeds.

Ya that could be very well a good description of myself. I am not happy I am miserable right now when thinking about God and just how easy it is to fall into mortal sin. I am stone faced all the time in mass and when I think about God. I feel guilty about doing basic liesure activities like basketball and going to a movie. I am definetly not attracting any converts by my cheerfullness. The last week or so I have had suicidal thoughts and have contemplated and just giving up altogether. I hold a lot of anger against the church for mandatory clerical celibacy, I feel its a double standard to deny heterosexual married men the priesthood but not polygraphy men to make sure homosexually attracted men dont enter the priesthood. Whats the point of me giving up sex/wife/kids if I am surrounded by a few gay priests who didnt make the same sacrifice I did? They would absolutely disgust me.  Probably a better chance I may be called to be a monk and not a priest with all this interior sadness/despair/depression. Right now its a beautiful day in my city and I cant even smile driving because I feel guilty about how the world is so messed up and the conciliar church is dragging souls to hell. Now I know how Francisco Marto felt

Kid, you need to do more than talk to a priest.  You need to see a psychiatrist.  Seriously, you sound truly disturbed.
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#57
(06-03-2011, 11:45 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: This won't be a popular suggestion, but you could just live life for now, and if you still are called to serve God at 35, you can be ordained as a deacon. A lesser calling than priesthood, but still essential, and it is permitted for a deacon to be a married man in the Latin Rite currently.

sspx doesnt allow married deacons
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#58
(06-04-2011, 12:36 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 11:45 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: This won't be a popular suggestion, but you could just live life for now, and if you still are called to serve God at 35, you can be ordained as a deacon. A lesser calling than priesthood, but still essential, and it is permitted for a deacon to be a married man in the Latin Rite currently.

sspx doesnt allow married deacons

I seem to remember a married deacon at our local sspx but that was years ago and I may be wrong...
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#59
(06-04-2011, 12:39 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 12:36 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 11:45 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: This won't be a popular suggestion, but you could just live life for now, and if you still are called to serve God at 35, you can be ordained as a deacon. A lesser calling than priesthood, but still essential, and it is permitted for a deacon to be a married man in the Latin Rite currently.

sspx doesnt allow married deacons

I seem to remember a married deacon at our local sspx but that was years ago and I may be wrong...

Interesting. Also my dad says that I'm nuts because I told him Bishop Richard Williamson is my idol.
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#60
(06-04-2011, 12:48 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 12:39 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-04-2011, 12:36 AM)st.dominic_savio Wrote:
(06-03-2011, 11:45 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: This won't be a popular suggestion, but you could just live life for now, and if you still are called to serve God at 35, you can be ordained as a deacon. A lesser calling than priesthood, but still essential, and it is permitted for a deacon to be a married man in the Latin Rite currently.

sspx doesnt allow married deacons

I seem to remember a married deacon at our local sspx but that was years ago and I may be wrong...

Interesting. Also my dad says that I'm nuts because I told him Bishop Richard Williamson is my idol.

Your father is a very ignorant man.  You are not nuts.  If anything you lack information on Lefebvre, Williamson and Fellay.  Allow me to recommend to you the reading of Hutton Gibson's works.  You'll find him in Google. 
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