FE labels for Catholics and "Non Catholics" err Protestants.
#11
(06-06-2011, 07:51 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Ultra-traditionalists: People who believe that the tridentine mass and Council of Trent are invalid.  They call for the return to mass of Saint Gregory Great without Gallican influences which they insist are abuses! NO MORE CANDLES AT MASS!!!

:-p

The Society of St. Pius I actually rejects the radical reforms of St. Gregory.  ;)
Reply
#12
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: This is not meant to be an attack on FE posters, but i hear lots of terms like Traditional, Ultra Traditional, Orthodox Catholic, Neo Catholic, Liberal "Catholic" all tossed around... I'd like to know what constitutes which???

Please correct me:

1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.
2. Traditional Catholic-- A Catholic who strictly only attends the SSPX, FSSP or ICK or Diocesan TLM.
3. Orthodox Catholic-- Usually attends the TLM or Eastern Rite, but may on occasion attend the NO to fullfill Sunday obligation...Follows all the Traditional Teachings of the Church
4. Neo-Catholic-- May follow the teachings of the Church, but will not attend the TLM and loves the Term "Spirit of Vatican II and believes JP II is Saintly. (Also may believe the Vatican or Pope issued an "indult" on CITH)
5. Liberal "Catholic"-  Goes to the NO Church either weekly or when they want during holidays, but DON'T follow the teachings, but still sacrilegiously receive.

Do i have these labels correct, and could you provide an example of Each?? ???

How about a devout Catholic person who attends the TLM on Sunday, but will go daily during the week to receive the Eucharist on the tongue at a NO while wearing a veil...  Where does that person fit in all this???

Much help appreciated!!

The problem is that, like in politics, these are relative terms. So for instance, a leftist party will accuse a centrist party of being right-wing. And then the centrist party will accuse the right-wing party of being fascists and the right-wing party will call the leftists communist. So there is a lot of exaggeration and subjectivity.

I attend a diocesan TLM. I would like the Holy Father to abrogate the Novus Ordo Missae. But I’ve been called a neo-Catholic on FE because diocesan TLM’s “implicitly” support the NOM. However, when I left my NO Basilica in January 2011, the head pastor described traditionalists and the TLM in fairly negative terms – it’s backwards thinking, misplaced nostalgia (my understanding of what he said). So to an SSPX fundamentalist I’m a neo-Catholic but to an actual neo-Catholic I’m a radical traditionalist. Can’t win.

1. Ultra Traditional Catholic. I’ve never heard this term used on FE, although I’d apply it to the SSPX in that they’re as far as you can go without become a sede.

2. Traditional Catholic. I think the working definition is anyone who believes the NO should be abrogated in favour of the TLM and prefers attending the TLM. Beyond that the waters get murky. Some will stay home if there’s no TLM and others will attend a NO if there’s no TLM – this shouldn’t be used as a litmus test for traditionalism but for SSPX adherence. The problem is that some SSPX fundamentalists insist that only the SSPX speaks for tradition. That’s certainly not the position of Fish Eaters in the sense that FE is open to anyone who self-identifies as a Trad.

3. Orthodox Catholic. I’ve never heard this term used on FE, although I’d apply it to both Traditional Catholics and Neo-Catholics in that both are in proper standing with the church and seek earnestly to remain free of mortal sin and follow Christ.

4. Neo-Catholic. This is a replacement for the now-useless term “neo-Conservative”. A neo-Catholic is not a Traditionalist. Neo-Catholics believe in all current Catholic teaching – transubstantiation of the host, Sunday obligation, no artificial birth control, etc. They tend to refuse any criticism of the Pope and attach a veneer of infallibility to all his actions. They are fine with the TLM’s existence since JP2 and B16 allowed it but attend and prefer the Novus Ordo. Neo-Catholics seek to live in full accordance with 1983 Canon law and the 1992 Catechism.

5. Liberal "Catholic". A Liberal Catholic rejects some or many Catholic teachings and thus places themselves in a position of mortal sin and is in real danger of incurring everlasting damnation. They may practice artificial birth control, desire a female priesthood, disbelieve transubstantiation, seek remarriage, do not attend church every Sunday. They’re modernists. The problem in the church is that Liberals Catholics aren’t dealt with swiftly enough by the Pope and are allowed to spread their errors.

Reply
#13
(06-06-2011, 12:30 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: 3. Orthodox Catholic. I’ve never heard this term used on FE, although I’d apply it to both Traditional Catholics and Neo-Catholics in that both are in proper standing with the church and seek earnestly to remain free of mortal sin and follow Christ.

I have read a few posters use the term "Orthodox Catholic" in here..... Apparently Mother Angelica is a good example. She is not a full blown Trad because she never exclusively attended the TLM post Vatican II, but her beliefs seem to go in line with the teaching of the Baltimore Catechism. She understood and denounced the Modernist and Liberal problems of the world.
Reply
#14
I think there needs to be clear definitions of what is taught by the Church and what isn't. Those who follow what is taught are Catholic. Those who purposefully reject anything that is taught is not Catholic.

These labels are useless except when defined as they are used, and even then, they are of minimal use.
Reply
#15
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: This is not meant to be an attack on FE posters, but i hear lots of terms like Traditional, Ultra Traditional, Orthodox Catholic, Neo Catholic, Liberal "Catholic" all tossed around... I'd like to know what constitutes which???

Please correct me:

1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.
2. Traditional Catholic-- A Catholic who strictly only attends the SSPX, FSSP or ICK or Diocesan TLM.
3. Orthodox Catholic-- Usually attends the TLM or Eastern Rite, but may on occasion attend the NO to fullfill Sunday obligation...Follows all the Traditional Teachings of the Church
4. Neo-Catholic-- May follow the teachings of the Church, but will not attend the TLM and loves the Term "Spirit of Vatican II and believes JP II is Saintly. (Also may believe the Vatican or Pope issued an "indult" on CITH)
5. Liberal "Catholic"-  Goes to the NO Church either weekly or when they want during holidays, but DON'T follow the teachings, but still sacrilegiously receive.

Do i have these labels correct, and could you provide an example of Each?? ???

How about a devout Catholic person who attends the TLM on Sunday, but will go daily during the week to receive the Eucharist on the tongue at a NO while wearing a veil...  Where does that person fit in all this???

Much help appreciated!!

Please correct you? Gladly-- Regarding 'Ultra Traditional Catholics', SSPV regards the Pope's validity as questionable, but leaves it at that. It is up to the individual SSPV church-goer to determine whether he or she acknowledges the Pope or holds a sedevacantist viewpoint. So don't throw that blanket sedevacantist assertion around, because many SSPV-ers are not sedevacantists.
Reply
#16
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: 1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.

I have never heard this label used, but it doesn't sound like it means any particular group.

(06-06-2011, 07:47 AM)Melita Wrote: Ultra-Trad for a sede sounds wrong. They are not even proper Catholics.

That's your opinion.
Reply
#17
(06-06-2011, 01:49 PM)piabee Wrote:
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: 1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.

I have never heard this label used, but it doesn't sound like it means any particular group.

(06-06-2011, 07:47 AM)Melita Wrote: Ultra-Trad for a sede sounds wrong. They are not even proper Catholics.

That's your opinion.

Anybody who rejects the legitimate pope is not Catholic.
Reply
#18
(06-06-2011, 02:08 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-06-2011, 01:49 PM)piabee Wrote:
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: 1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.

I have never heard this label used, but it doesn't sound like it means any particular group.

(06-06-2011, 07:47 AM)Melita Wrote: Ultra-Trad for a sede sounds wrong. They are not even proper Catholics.

That's your opinion.

Anybody who rejects the legitimate pope is not Catholic.

The biggest error is in thinking there is a continuum of orthodoxy. One is Catholic, or not. There is nothing else.

We can grow in grace, knowledge, and experience with time, but one can only be Catholic or not be Catholic. If something on the supposed continuum misrepresents us, we are almost bound to reject the label completely.

The term "traditional Catholic" shouldn't exist.
Reply
#19
(06-06-2011, 06:53 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: This is not meant to be an attack on FE posters, but i hear lots of terms like Traditional, Ultra Traditional, Orthodox Catholic, Neo Catholic, Liberal "Catholic" all tossed around... I'd like to know what constitutes which???

Please correct me:

1. Ultra Traditional Catholic-- Typically a Catholic who only attends the CMRI, SSPV or any Chapel that doesn't recognize the Pope.
2. Traditional Catholic-- A Catholic who strictly only attends the SSPX, FSSP or ICK or Diocesan TLM.
3. Orthodox Catholic-- Usually attends the TLM or Eastern Rite, but may on occasion attend the NO to fullfill Sunday obligation...Follows all the Traditional Teachings of the Church
4. Neo-Catholic-- May follow the teachings of the Church, but will not attend the TLM and loves the Term "Spirit of Vatican II and believes JP II is Saintly. (Also may believe the Vatican or Pope issued an "indult" on CITH)
5. Liberal "Catholic"-  Goes to the NO Church either weekly or when they want during holidays, but DON'T follow the teachings, but still sacrilegiously receive.

Do i have these labels correct, and could you provide an example of Each?? ???

How about a devout Catholic person who attends the TLM on Sunday, but will go daily during the week to receive the Eucharist on the tongue at a NO while wearing a veil...  Where does that person fit in all this???

Much help appreciated!!

I consider myself #2 but this labels me as #3 with the exception of attending the Eastern rite....yeah I get confused about this too sometimes.
Reply
#20
(06-06-2011, 02:08 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-06-2011, 01:49 PM)piabee Wrote:
(06-06-2011, 07:47 AM)Melita Wrote: Ultra-Trad for a sede sounds wrong. They are not even proper Catholics.

That's your opinion.

Anybody who rejects the legitimate pope is not Catholic.

From Fisheaters:

Quote:Traditional Catholics fall into three main categories:
...

The third group consisists of "sedevacantist" Catholics
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)