Candle drama
#11
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.
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#12
(06-07-2011, 02:12 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.

The best thing now is to pray for him.

He's another sad example of Modern Catholicism that has run its course.
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#13
(06-07-2011, 02:15 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:12 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.

The best thing now is to pray for him.

He's another sad example of Modern Catholicism that has run its course.

The thing is, he'd call us Modernists for practicing these devotions!

Anyway, prayer seems to be the only option right now. I'm still quite angry.
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#14
You're fine, Melita.  I am sure that your artwork is quite lovely.  Your friend was probably having an unhinged day----it happens to the best of us.  A gentle correction, as per WRC's recommendation, is very much in order.
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#15
Wait, don't we use six candle at any High Mass?  Two at Low, six at High...am I missing something here? ???
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#16
(06-07-2011, 02:16 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:15 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:12 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.

The best thing now is to pray for him.

He's another sad example of Modern Catholicism that has run its course.

The thing is, he'd call us Modernists for practicing these devotions!

Anyway, prayer seems to be the only option right now. I'm still quite angry.

This guy sounds like Patricius from Liturgiae Causa.  He has been recently ranting about Lourdes.
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#17
(06-07-2011, 02:21 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:16 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:15 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:12 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.

The best thing now is to pray for him.

He's another sad example of Modern Catholicism that has run its course.

The thing is, he'd call us Modernists for practicing these devotions!

Anyway, prayer seems to be the only option right now. I'm still quite angry.

This guy sounds like Patricius from Liturgiae Causa.  He has been recently ranting about Lourdes.

He sent me that blog to read but I never got round to it. Is it a trad blog?
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#18
(06-07-2011, 02:21 PM)Pheo Wrote: Wait, don't we use six candle at any High Mass?  Two at Low, six at High...am I missing something here? ???

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32):

Catholic Encyclopedia Wrote:Number of candles at mass

(1) At a pontifical high Mass, celebrated by the ordinary, seven candles are lighted. The seventh candle should be somewhat higher than the others, and should be placed at the middle of the altar in line with the other six. For this reason the altar crucifix is moved forward a little. In Requiem Masses, and at other liturgical services. e.g. Vespers, the seventh candle is not used. If the bishop celebrate outside his diocese. or if he be the administrator, auxiliary, or coadjutor, the seventh candle is not lighted.

(2) At a solemn high Mass, i.e. when the celebrant is assisted by a deacon and subdeacon, six candles are lighted. This is not expressly prescribed by the rubrics, but merely deduced from the rubric describing the manner of incensing the altar (Ritus celebrandi Missam, tit. iv, n. 4), which says that the celebrant incenses both sides of the altar with three swings of the censer prout distribuuntur candelabra.

(3) At a high Mass (missa cantata), which is celebrated without the assistance of deacon and subdeacon, at least four candles are required (Cong. Sac. Rit., 12 August, 1854), although six may be lighted. At these Masses under (l), (2), (3), the two lighted candles prescribed by the Missal (Rubr. XX) to be placed one on each side of the cross, are not necessary (Cong. Sac. Rit., 5 December, 1891).

(4) At low Mass celebrated by any bishop, four candles are usually lighted, although the "Caeremoniale Episcoporum" (I, cap. xxix, n. 4) prescribes this number only for the more solemn feasts, and two on feasts of lower rite.

(5) At a strictly low Mass celebrated by any priest inferior to a bishop, whatever be his dignity, only two candles may be used.

(6) In a not strictly low Mass, i.e. in a parochial or community Mass on more solemn feasts or the Mass which is said instead of a solemn or high Mass on the occasion of a great solemnity (Cong. Sac. Rit., 12 September, 1857), when celebrated by a priest more than two candles, and when celebrated by a bishop more than four candles may be used.

At all functions throughout the year except on Good Friday and Holy Saturday, before the Mass bishops are allowed the use of the bugia or hand-candlestick. The use of the bugia is not permitted to priests, whatever be their dignity, unless it be granted by an Apostolic privilege either personal, or by reason of their being curial dignitaries. If, on account of darkness a priest stands in need of a light near the Missal he may use a candle, but the candlestick on which it is fastened cannot have the form of the bugia (Cong. Sac. Rit., 31 May, 1817). An oil lamp can never be used for this purpose (Cong. Sac. Rit., 20 June, 1899). At the Forty Hours Devotion at least twenty candles should burn continuously (Instructio Clementina, section 6); at other public expositions of the Blessed Sacrament at least five (Cong. Sac. Rit., 8 February, 1879); at the private exposition, at least six (Cong. Episc. et Reg., 9 December, 1602). The only blessings at which lighted candles are prescribed are:

- of the candles on the feast of the Purification
- of the ashes on Ash Wednesday;
- of the palms on Palm Sunday.
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#19
The pastor at my local parish uses six candles and a crucifix on the altar for a NO Mass.  And there is no way he would do anything that is a liturgical abuse.  This "friend" seems to be thoroughly messed up in his ideas.
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#20
(06-07-2011, 02:23 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:21 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:16 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:15 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:12 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 02:09 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-07-2011, 01:55 PM)Melita Wrote: The same email also said that praying the rosary was "rustic".

Despising Marian devotions is a sure sign of a heretical mindset.

To be fair, he also isn't too keen on the Sacred Heart devotion and almost anything else that isn't drawing directly and exclusively from Liturgy. A lot of what he says is interesting, but the candle attack was the last straw.

And yep, I do think that anybody who rejects Marian devotions (especially the rosary and Lourdes/Fatima, both of which he's characterised as "hysterical apparitions") is in a troubled place.

The best thing now is to pray for him.

He's another sad example of Modern Catholicism that has run its course.

The thing is, he'd call us Modernists for practicing these devotions!

Anyway, prayer seems to be the only option right now. I'm still quite angry.

This guy sounds like Patricius from Liturgiae Causa.  He has been recently ranting about Lourdes.

He sent me that blog to read but I never got round to it. Is it a trad blog?

It is an interesting and yet terrible, very weird blog.  Basically it is a blog by a kid who is pretty smart, has read a lot about liturgy, but is sort of obsessional.  He has no sense of perspective, is extremely uncharitable, and goes on rants. 

He has taken public oaths against the 1962 Missal, rants about lace because it is Roman and not good English liturgy, prefers English saints (e.g. quotes St. Bede a lot), and has other very narrow interests and obsessions.

What I think his blog sorely, sorely lacks is a sense of proportion or charity.  Also he fetishes liturgy to the point that he ignores any sense of sin and redeption, the Sacrifice of Our Lord, unity with Peter ... none of it matters next to doing "good liturgy."

Anyway, check out his blog ... you will learn a lot about "your friend.."  But you are warned.
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