Tattoo Issue
#41
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter and his second successor) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 
Reply
#42
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 
Reply
#43
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!
Reply
#44
(06-14-2011, 07:57 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!

Saint Clement is in Heaven; and you and I could end up in Hell.  So you better watch your words.
Reply
#45
(06-14-2011, 08:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:57 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!

Saint Clement is in Heaven; and you and I could end up in Hell.  So you better watch your words.

I stand by my words regarding Saint Clement. 
Reply
#46
(06-14-2011, 08:03 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:57 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!

Saint Clement is in Heaven; and you and I could end up in Hell.  So you better watch your words.

I stand by my words regarding Saint Clement. 

Just as Saint Clement was free to use that example in order to explain the Resurrection... I feel free to read what follows:

"And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.  And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this, behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel. And as they were afraid, and bowed down their countenance towards the ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead?  He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was in Galilee, Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words. And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest. And it was Mary Magdalen, and Joanna, and Mary of James, and the other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles. "

Reply
#47
(06-14-2011, 08:21 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:03 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:57 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!

Saint Clement is in Heaven; and you and I could end up in Hell.  So you better watch your words.

I stand by my words regarding Saint Clement. 

Just as Saint Clement was free to use that example in order to explain the Resurrection... I feel free to read what follows:

"And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.  And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this, behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel. And as they were afraid, and bowed down their countenance towards the ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead?  He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was in Galilee, Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words. And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest. And it was Mary Magdalen, and Joanna, and Mary of James, and the other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles. "

I am sure neither Saint Clement nor anyone here would have a problem with that passage...
Reply
#48
(06-14-2011, 08:25 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:21 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:03 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 08:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:57 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:56 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:44 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:43 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:31 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 07:15 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 01:39 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I remember years ago seeing a black chasuble with a phoenix on it. It's a symbol of the Resurrection.

I don't see why we have to resort to pagan symbols when we have our own holy christian symbols to depict the same thing.

Darn liberal Popes! 

From the Letter of Saint Clement to the Corinthians:

Quote:Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.  we then think it to be a great and marvelous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?

The bird is pure fiction.  The bird is pure fantasy. The bird is pure pagan superstitious mythology.   Compare the bird to what Pontius Pilate told Tiberius Caesar in a letter concerning the Real Resurrection.

Well, Saint Clement (who was ordained by Saint Peter) clearly thought the phoenix was a symbol of the resurrection. 


Our Lord's flesh did not decay nor produce worms.  The Holy Shroud of Turin clearly shows Him in full integrity of His flesh and as for the worms... I better leave that alone. If you insist on symbols of the Resurrection, I guess you also like the one about the "Risen Christ" in the  Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. 

That's not what Saint Clement is saying at all...

You're acting like Saint Clement was some crazed modernist pagan!  He's the author of the oldest Christian document extant that is not part of scripture!

Saint Clement is in Heaven; and you and I could end up in Hell.  So you better watch your words.

I stand by my words regarding Saint Clement. 

Just as Saint Clement was free to use that example in order to explain the Resurrection... I feel free to read what follows:

"And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.  And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this, behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel. And as they were afraid, and bowed down their countenance towards the ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead?  He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was in Galilee, Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words. And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest. And it was Mary Magdalen, and Joanna, and Mary of James, and the other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles. "

I am sure neither Saint Clement nor anyone here would have a problem with that passage...

Of course not.  That is the basis of our faith.  May we always keep it and, hopefully, at the end, have it adorned with  Grace.
St. Clement, pray for us that so it may be!
Reply
#49
From Fisheaters' Christian Symbols page:

"Phoenix: The Phoenix is a mythical creature said to build a nest when old, and set it on fire. It would then rise from the ashes in victory. Because of these myths (believed by the Egyptians, Greeks, and Orientals), the bird came to symbolize Christ."
Reply
#50
(06-15-2011, 02:29 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: From Fisheaters' Christian Symbols page:

"Phoenix: The Phoenix is a mythical creature said to build a nest when old, and set it on fire. It would then rise from the ashes in victory. Because of these myths (believed by the Egyptians, Greeks, and Orientals), the bird came to symbolize Christ."

I don't need egyptian, greek or oriental mythological symbols.  Just give me christian ones.  Thank you!
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