learning from Anglicans
#1
Well they are not really Anglicans anymore after joining the ordinariate, but I found this paragraph from a recent article very interesting.  William Oddie is writing about two recent events associated with Anglicanorum Coetibus, and recounting the first one he says:

Quote:....I was present back in the 90s at the ordination in Fort Worth Cathedral (Texas) of a former Anglican priest who had been received into the Catholic Church with his people (virtually all of them came). It was a moving event; and afterwards, back at the parish church (which as in Maryland this week the local Anglican bishop had generously allowed them to keep: what a contrast to what’s happened here) his first Mass was celebrated, and was followed by the singing of the Te Deum, of course in the old 1662 Prayer Book translation, and sung to the famous setting by Charles Villiers Stanford. The “diocesan liturgist”, who was present, presumably, to make sure that no reactionary enormities were perpetrated, asked me at the reception afterwards about the Te Deum, of which (I’m not making this up) she (a supposed liturgist) had never heard. “Is that a typically Anglican prayer, would you say?”, she asked me, quizzically.

Emphases mine.

Full article: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...c-liturgy/

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#2
(06-08-2011, 05:56 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: Well they are not really Anglicans anymore after joining the ordinariate, but I found this paragraph from a recent article very interesting.  William Oddie is writing about two recent events associated with Anglicanorum Coetibus, and recounting the first one he says:

Quote:....I was present back in the 90s at the ordination in Fort Worth Cathedral (Texas) of a former Anglican priest who had been received into the Catholic Church with his people (virtually all of them came). It was a moving event; and afterwards, back at the parish church (which as in Maryland this week the local Anglican bishop had generously allowed them to keep: what a contrast to what’s happened here) his first Mass was celebrated, and was followed by the singing of the Te Deum, of course in the old 1662 Prayer Book translation, and sung to the famous setting by Charles Villiers Stanford. The “diocesan liturgist”, who was present, presumably, to make sure that no reactionary enormities were perpetrated, asked me at the reception afterwards about the Te Deum, of which (I’m not making this up) she (a supposed liturgist) had never heard. “Is that a typically Anglican prayer, would you say?”, she asked me, quizzically.

Emphases mine.

Full article: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...c-liturgy/

I don't understand how the heretical Book of Common Prayer, authored by heretic and executioner of Catholics - Thomas Cranmer, is now a legitimate Roman Catholic Liturgical book.   Sure, you can change it's name to the Book of Divine Worship and tweak a few words here and there and "presto chango" we have another new and "valid" Catholic Mass.  I've read the Book of Divine Worship and it is 90-95% heretical Book of Common Prayer.  How can this heretical liturgy (with the few tweaks I mentioned) be accepted after reading Pope Leo XIII's Papal Bull, Apostolicae Curae, and accepting said Bull as part of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church?  Formerly, converting Anglicans forswore their former worship and accepted the Mass of All Ages (TLM).   This acceptance of a now "sort-of" heretical liturgy turns Apostolicae Curae on it's head.  Anyone want to attempt to enlighten me?  And please, don't throw your sensus Catholicus out the window when answering.  Thank you!   
:tiphat:
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#3
(06-08-2011, 06:32 PM)NECatholic Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 05:56 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: Well they are not really Anglicans anymore after joining the ordinariate, but I found this paragraph from a recent article very interesting.  William Oddie is writing about two recent events associated with Anglicanorum Coetibus, and recounting the first one he says:

Quote:....I was present back in the 90s at the ordination in Fort Worth Cathedral (Texas) of a former Anglican priest who had been received into the Catholic Church with his people (virtually all of them came). It was a moving event; and afterwards, back at the parish church (which as in Maryland this week the local Anglican bishop had generously allowed them to keep: what a contrast to what’s happened here) his first Mass was celebrated, and was followed by the singing of the Te Deum, of course in the old 1662 Prayer Book translation, and sung to the famous setting by Charles Villiers Stanford. The “diocesan liturgist”, who was present, presumably, to make sure that no reactionary enormities were perpetrated, asked me at the reception afterwards about the Te Deum, of which (I’m not making this up) she (a supposed liturgist) had never heard. “Is that a typically Anglican prayer, would you say?”, she asked me, quizzically.

Emphases mine.

Full article: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...c-liturgy/

I don't understand how the heretical Book of Common Prayer, authored by heretic and executioner of Catholics Thomas Cranmer, is now a legitimate Roman Catholic Liturgical book.   Sure, you can change it's name to the Book of Divine Worship and tweak a few words here and there and "presto chango" we have another new and valid Catholic Mass.  I've read the Book of Divine Worship and it is 90-95% heretical Book of Common Prayer.  How can this heretical liturgy (with the few tweaks I mentioned) be accepted after reading Pope Leo XIII's Papal Bull, Apostolicae Curae, and accepting said Bull as part of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church?  Formerly, converting Anglicans forswore their former worship and accepted the Mass of All Ages (TLM).   This acceptance of a now "sort-of" heretical liturgy turns Apostolicae Curae on it's head.  Anyone want to attempt to enlighten me?  And please, don't throw your sensus Catholicus out the window when answering.  Thank you!   :tiphat:

Bah. As somebody who prays the Office using the Anglican Breviary, I think the Book of Common Prayer makes for a superior translation. And all these Anglicans who've left their pseudo-Church for the Faith should get back to tradition via Sarum.
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#4
Your right NE Catholic it's absolutely scandalous what is going on with the liturgy with those coming back in union with Rome. Apparently they Catholicized ,The Book of Common Prayer to make it legit. But if what you say is true that 90% of it is heretical i don't see how it was done. What bothers me was we were told that these were High (Their Trads) Church Anglicans. If they are why didn't they ask to return to the trad Latin Mass, it seems that they are too stuck on the vernacular, strange indeed for people wanting traditional worship. They sound like they just want an ethnic parish with their own language  which is the same thing the Novus Ordo did so we now have a Tower of Babel in worship in the Church.
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#5
(06-08-2011, 06:42 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 06:32 PM)NECatholic Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 05:56 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: Well they are not really Anglicans anymore after joining the ordinariate, but I found this paragraph from a recent article very interesting.  William Oddie is writing about two recent events associated with Anglicanorum Coetibus, and recounting the first one he says:

Quote:....I was present back in the 90s at the ordination in Fort Worth Cathedral (Texas) of a former Anglican priest who had been received into the Catholic Church with his people (virtually all of them came). It was a moving event; and afterwards, back at the parish church (which as in Maryland this week the local Anglican bishop had generously allowed them to keep: what a contrast to what’s happened here) his first Mass was celebrated, and was followed by the singing of the Te Deum, of course in the old 1662 Prayer Book translation, and sung to the famous setting by Charles Villiers Stanford. The “diocesan liturgist”, who was present, presumably, to make sure that no reactionary enormities were perpetrated, asked me at the reception afterwards about the Te Deum, of which (I’m not making this up) she (a supposed liturgist) had never heard. “Is that a typically Anglican prayer, would you say?”, she asked me, quizzically.

Emphases mine.

Full article: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...c-liturgy/

I don't understand how the heretical Book of Common Prayer, authored by heretic and executioner of Catholics Thomas Cranmer, is now a legitimate Roman Catholic Liturgical book.   Sure, you can change it's name to the Book of Divine Worship and tweak a few words here and there and "presto chango" we have another new and valid Catholic Mass.  I've read the Book of Divine Worship and it is 90-95% heretical Book of Common Prayer.  How can this heretical liturgy (with the few tweaks I mentioned) be accepted after reading Pope Leo XIII's Papal Bull, Apostolicae Curae, and accepting said Bull as part of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church?  Formerly, converting Anglicans forswore their former worship and accepted the Mass of All Ages (TLM).   This acceptance of a now "sort-of" heretical liturgy turns Apostolicae Curae on it's head.  Anyone want to attempt to enlighten me?  And please, don't throw your sensus Catholicus out the window when answering.  Thank you!   :tiphat:

Bah. As somebody who prays the Office using the Anglican Breviary, I think the Book of Common Prayer makes for a superior translation. And all these Anglicans who've left their pseudo-Church for the Faith should get back to tradition via Sarum.

The Anglican Breviary is not in any sense comparable to the Book of Common Prayer / Book of Divine Worship.  The two are totally different books and genres.  The Anglican Breviary has no legal sanction in any part of the Anglican Communion (it's too Catholic).  If the Church had accepted the Anglican Breviary then I'd have no beef.  But it didn't.   Instead the Church accepted the most heretical Anglican book of worship (with a few tweaks here and there) - the Book of Common Prayer ie the Book of Divine Worship.  The new Catholic ordinariate doesn't officially accept the Anglican Breviary either - so you are in a sense praying a book which has no official sanction in the Catholic Church but the heretical Book of Common Prayer / Book of Divine Worship does have that official sanction.  What to make of that?  ???
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#6
(06-08-2011, 06:48 PM)NECatholic Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 06:42 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 06:32 PM)NECatholic Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 05:56 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: Well they are not really Anglicans anymore after joining the ordinariate, but I found this paragraph from a recent article very interesting.  William Oddie is writing about two recent events associated with Anglicanorum Coetibus, and recounting the first one he says:

Quote:....I was present back in the 90s at the ordination in Fort Worth Cathedral (Texas) of a former Anglican priest who had been received into the Catholic Church with his people (virtually all of them came). It was a moving event; and afterwards, back at the parish church (which as in Maryland this week the local Anglican bishop had generously allowed them to keep: what a contrast to what’s happened here) his first Mass was celebrated, and was followed by the singing of the Te Deum, of course in the old 1662 Prayer Book translation, and sung to the famous setting by Charles Villiers Stanford. The “diocesan liturgist”, who was present, presumably, to make sure that no reactionary enormities were perpetrated, asked me at the reception afterwards about the Te Deum, of which (I’m not making this up) she (a supposed liturgist) had never heard. “Is that a typically Anglican prayer, would you say?”, she asked me, quizzically.

Emphases mine.

Full article: http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...c-liturgy/

I don't understand how the heretical Book of Common Prayer, authored by heretic and executioner of Catholics Thomas Cranmer, is now a legitimate Roman Catholic Liturgical book.   Sure, you can change it's name to the Book of Divine Worship and tweak a few words here and there and "presto chango" we have another new and valid Catholic Mass.  I've read the Book of Divine Worship and it is 90-95% heretical Book of Common Prayer.  How can this heretical liturgy (with the few tweaks I mentioned) be accepted after reading Pope Leo XIII's Papal Bull, Apostolicae Curae, and accepting said Bull as part of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church?  Formerly, converting Anglicans forswore their former worship and accepted the Mass of All Ages (TLM).   This acceptance of a now "sort-of" heretical liturgy turns Apostolicae Curae on it's head.  Anyone want to attempt to enlighten me?  And please, don't throw your sensus Catholicus out the window when answering.  Thank you!   :tiphat:

Bah. As somebody who prays the Office using the Anglican Breviary, I think the Book of Common Prayer makes for a superior translation. And all these Anglicans who've left their pseudo-Church for the Faith should get back to tradition via Sarum.

The Anglican Breviary is not in any sense comparable to the Book of Common Prayer.  The two are totally different books and genres.  The Anglican Breviary has no legal sanction in any part of the Anglican Communion (it's too Catholic).  If the Church had accepted the Anglican Breviary then I'd have no beef.  But it didn't.   Instead the Church accepted the most heretical Anglican book of worship (with a few tweaks here and there) - the Book of Common Prayer ie the Book of Divine Worship.  The new Catholic ordinariate doesn't officially accept the Anglican Breviary either - so you are in a sense praying a book which has no sanction in the Catholic Church but the heretical Book of Common Prayer / Book of Divine Worship does have sanction. 

I've been known to practice devotions to St Ursula too. Welcome to the wild side  :P
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#7
(06-08-2011, 06:51 PM)Melita Wrote: I've been known to practice devotions to St Ursula too. Welcome to the wild side  :P

Oh, no! By George, you've gone too far! Quite far enough! :o
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#8
(06-08-2011, 06:32 PM)NECatholic Wrote: I don't understand how the heretical Book of Common Prayer, authored by heretic and executioner of Catholics - Thomas Cranmer, is now a legitimate Roman Catholic Liturgical book.   Sure, you can change it's name to the Book of Divine Worship and tweak a few words here and there and "presto chango" we have another new and "valid" Catholic Mass.  I've read the Book of Divine Worship and it is 90-95% heretical Book of Common Prayer.  How can this heretical liturgy (with the few tweaks I mentioned) be accepted after reading Pope Leo XIII's Papal Bull, Apostolicae Curae, and accepting said Bull as part of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church?  Formerly, converting Anglicans forswore their former worship and accepted the Mass of All Ages (TLM).   This acceptance of a now "sort-of" heretical liturgy turns Apostolicae Curae on it's head.  Anyone want to attempt to enlighten me?  And please, don't throw your sensus Catholicus out the window when answering.  Thank you!   
:tiphat:

I'm not familiar with the book of common prayer, but are you saying the book of divine worship is 90-95% heretical because it is 90-95% the same as the book of common prayer?  That is, because the book of common prayer is from Anglicans, you're considering the whole thing heretical, and not separating Anglican heresy from what the Anglicans maintained that is not heresy?  Or is 90-95% of it actually heretical?  Why would the Anglicans want to return to a Mass that they never had, since the Sarum rite was what the Anglicans were using when they broke away, and it wasn't abrogated by Rome until Trent?
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#9
(06-08-2011, 09:33 PM)Melkite Wrote: Why would the Anglicans want to return to a Mass that they never had, since the Sarum rite was what the Anglicans were using when they broke away, and it wasn't abrogated by Rome until Trent?

FYI, the Sarum Missal was never abrogated. It falls under Pope Pius V's "200 years or older" protection clause. It went out of use in practice, though, because the Jesuits in Elizabethan England adopted the Roman Missal for, presumably, the sake of ease in offering clandestine low Masses compared to the complex demands of the Sarum Use. Then, when the Catholic hierarchy in England was re-established in the Victorian period, they adopted the Roman Missal.
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#10
(06-08-2011, 06:42 PM)Melita Wrote: And all these Anglicans who've left their pseudo-Church for the Faith should get back to tradition via Sarum.

Doubtless.
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