Prayers composed by those outside the Church
#11
(06-08-2011, 07:12 PM)NECatholic Wrote: Even so, I would still be leery.  At least with authorized Catholic prayers you know they are legit.

Even better, if the pope says them before bedtime ;)
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#12
(06-08-2011, 07:14 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 07:11 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 07:08 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 07:04 PM)Melita Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 07:00 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 06:59 PM)Melita Wrote: If the prayer conforms to Church teaching, is humble and offered by a penitent soul, how could it be anything but pleasing to God.

That is what I wanted answered.

That is the answer. A prayer which fulfills those requirements is acceptable.

This was parsed as a question: "how could it be anything but pleasing to God."

Are you saying it is pleasing to God, not asking one to consider how it could be anything but pleasing?

If answering rhetorical questions is how you'd rather spend your time (instead of watching star trek or buying boots), please enjoy  ;D

I didn't buy my boots yet.

And I am about to watch Star Trek.

And I did want reasons and authority, not weakly worded answers based on personal intuition ;)

This is a matter of proper behaviour and needs to be answered with certainty.

I hope you're not buying the pervert ones.

Enjoy watching Q.

I think my answer was valid. Certainly feels that way  :)
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#13
(06-08-2011, 06:56 PM)Rosarium Wrote: Is it improper to use the prayers of those who are not-Catholic, schismatic, or otherwise not part of the Church if the prayer is orthodox?

Prayers composed by Blessed John Henry Newman while he was still not-Catholic have been sanctioned for official use.
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#14
There is a big battle going on at my trad church because the choir director has an affinity for Anglican hymns and many feel the Church has a huge treasury of music which should be used.
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#15
I have a prayer book that has Jewish and Muslim prayers, Luther and Calvin prayers, Knox and other heretics, pagans and schismatics. I assumed that so long as the prayer was not in itself tainted by their wrong doctrines, it would be permissible.
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#16
(06-08-2011, 08:57 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: I have a prayer book that has Jewish and Muslim prayers, Luther and Calvin prayers, Knox and other heretics, pagans and schismatics. I assumed that so long as the prayer was not in itself tainted by their wrong doctrines, it would be permissible.

My question to you would be, "why"?  Something permissible may not always be the good and right thing to do.
Why would you use a prayer book which contains Jewish, Muslim, pagan and Protestant prayers when there are hundreds of Catholic prayer books containing thousands of Catholic prayers out there?  I'm not bothered so much by the use of such prayer books (sort-of), but I would be concerned as to why a Catholic would turn to such books when there are so many good and legitimate Catholic prayers already established and available for a Catholic to use. 

Also, as a layman (which I'm assuming you are), how are you to be sure the prayers you are using from pagan, Jewish, Muslim and Protestant sources are indeed not a violation against the First Commandment?  I don't think I would want to trust my own personal judgement when praying to Almighty God.

Why would you want to do this?  ???
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#17
Taking into account that St. Thomas said that “every truth, whoever utters it, comes from the Holy Spirit” (Super Evangelium Joannis, I, 3) and Pope Leo XIII said "We hold that every word of wisdom, every useful thing by whomsoever discovered or planned, ought to be received with a willing and grateful mind," (Aeterni Patris 31) I think there would be nothing wrong with using prayers composed by a non-Catholic if there is nothing contrary to truth in them.

That being said, I kind of have the same idea as NECatholic. Why bother when there are so many riches that have sprung up within the Church?
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#18
(06-09-2011, 07:57 AM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Taking into account that St. Thomas said that “every truth, whoever utters it, comes from the Holy Spirit” (Super Evangelium Joannis, I, 3) and Pope Leo XIII said "We hold that every word of wisdom, every useful thing by whomsoever discovered or planned, ought to be received with a willing and grateful mind," (Aeterni Patris 31) I think there would be nothing wrong with using prayers composed by a non-Catholic if there is nothing contrary to truth in them.

That being said, I kind of have the same idea as NECatholic. Why bother when there are so many riches that have sprung up within the Church?

Because it was a prayer book I bought at an earlier time and without really thinking about it. I never expected to find another with so many prayers. My guess is that the book was written and edited by a modernist, since all of the prefaces and such have that ecumenist feel to them.
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#19
(06-09-2011, 06:17 AM)NECatholic Wrote:
(06-08-2011, 08:57 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: I have a prayer book that has Jewish and Muslim prayers, Luther and Calvin prayers, Knox and other heretics, pagans and schismatics. I assumed that so long as the prayer was not in itself tainted by their wrong doctrines, it would be permissible.

My question to you would be, "why"?  Something permissible may not always be the good and right thing to do.
Why would you use a prayer book which contains Jewish, Muslim, pagan and Protestant prayers when there are hundreds of Catholic prayer books containing thousands of Catholic prayers out there?  I'm not bothered so much by the use of such prayer books (sort-of), but I would be concerned as to why a Catholic would turn to such books when there are so many good and legitimate Catholic prayers already established and available for a Catholic to use. 

Also, as a layman (which I'm assuming you are), how are you to be sure the prayers you are using from pagan, Jewish, Muslim and Protestant sources are indeed not a violation against the First Commandment?  I don't think I would want to trust my own personal judgement when praying to Almighty God.

Why would you want to do this?  ???

Sometimes the prayers are worded in a way that is of more benefit to the pray-er.  For example, Orthodox versus Catholic prayers.  To me, many Latin prayers sound ostentatious and gaudy, they feel fake when I try to pray them.  Orthodox prayers, on the other hand, I find very moving and heartfelt.  Now, many of those prayers existed before the Schism, so they were Catholic before they were Orthodox.  But there are others that were composed after that don't have anything inherently wrong with them.  Why should I feel obliged to confine myself to a wealth of prayers that close me off to God, just because there are already plenty?  A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.
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#20
(06-09-2011, 03:39 PM)Melkite Wrote: A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.

I'm sure most Eastern prayers are not heretical. I don't think anyone claimed they were. The orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayer books are probably almost the same. But the East is a lot more liturgical and doesn't have as many short private prayers like you find in Latin prayer books, which I think is what there talking about.
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