Prayers composed by those outside the Church
#21
(06-09-2011, 03:45 PM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:39 PM)Melkite Wrote: A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.

I'm sure most Eastern prayers are not heretical. I don't think anyone claimed they were. The orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayer books are probably almost the same. But the East is a lot more liturgical and doesn't have as many short private prayers like you find in Latin prayer books, which I think is what there talking about.

Maybe not, but the point still stands:  the abundance of prayers from the Latin tradition seem to be predominantly geared to a particular personality type.  If you aren't that type, then the Latin tradition doesn't have much to offer you in the way of private prayers.  Having tens of thousands of prayers that don't match your personality doesn't make much of a difference.  I was answering NEcatholic's question as to why someone would want or need to use non-Catholic prayers.
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#22
Here's an example.
Quote:Deep peace of the quiet earth to you.  Deep peace of the rolling wave to you.  Deep peace of the flower scented breeze.  Deep peace of the One who gave you these.  Deep peace in Christ ... Deep peace in Christ.  Rest safe in the Heavenly Father's care.  Rest with the Son who'll greet you their.  Rest with the Holy Spirit Dove ... safe in the realm of Perfect Love.  Deep peace in Christ.  Deep peace in Christ.  Amen

A friend gave me this prayer a few years ago when I was leading an online daily Rosary group that were mostly SSPX members.  So I started to end the Rosary with it.  Until one of the SSPX members said that he'd sooner not hear it because he thought he heard the prayer at a funeral for a Freemason, so I stopped saying it.  I can see how he could say that he heard it at a funeral.  But to me I think the prayer sounds like a Gaelic blessing, something like St. Patrick would say, rather than a Freemason.  I don't know the origin of this prayer but I still think that it is beautiful.  
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#23
The answer is that it is okay to use prayers regardless of who composed them, if the prayers themselves are not problematic.  My source for this is my own statement that there is no source prohibiting this, only specific texts have been prohibited.  Also JayneK mentioned the interesting fact that some of Newman's preconversion prayers are approved.

We are not necessarily talking about seeking such prayers out, but sometimes they can be helpful.

For example if I come across a very well written prayer for medical students, and I find nothing wrong with it, I might give it to a medical student, even if it wasn't written by a Catholic.  If there were an official Catholic medical student prayer I'd use it, but I don't think there is an "official" one.
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#24
(06-09-2011, 03:57 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:45 PM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:39 PM)Melkite Wrote: A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.

I'm sure most Eastern prayers are not heretical. I don't think anyone claimed they were. The orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayer books are probably almost the same. But the East is a lot more liturgical and doesn't have as many short private prayers like you find in Latin prayer books, which I think is what there talking about.

Maybe not, but the point still stands:  the abundance of prayers from the Latin tradition seem to be predominantly geared to a particular personality type.  If you aren't that type, then the Latin tradition doesn't have much to offer you in the way of private prayers.  Having tens of thousands of prayers that don't match your personality doesn't make much of a difference.  I was answering NEcatholic's question as to why someone would want or need to use non-Catholic prayers.

That's fine. I'll agree certain prayers fit certain personality types and that it is fine for one to pray prayers from Eastern tradition if they feel they are more beneficial to their soul.
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#25
(06-09-2011, 03:45 PM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:39 PM)Melkite Wrote: A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.

I'm sure most Eastern prayers are not heretical. I don't think anyone claimed they were. The orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayer books are probably almost the same. But the East is a lot more liturgical and doesn't have as many short private prayers like you find in Latin prayer books, which I think is what there talking about.

I also have an Orthodox prayer book kicking around somewhere. I do not agree with Melkite is saying that I place those prayers above the Catholic, but above modern Catholic. The modern Catholic prayers seem to have a large difference with their counterparts of pre-Vatican II. I don't necessarily hate post Vatican II prayers, but my preference lies with pre.
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#26
(06-09-2011, 10:45 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:45 PM)K3vinhood Wrote:
(06-09-2011, 03:39 PM)Melkite Wrote: A good example of an Orthodox prayer: "Open unto us the door of thy loving kindness, O blessed Theotokos, in that we place our hope in thee, may we not go astray, but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian peoples."  Yep, that one's just dripping with heresy.

I'm sure most Eastern prayers are not heretical. I don't think anyone claimed they were. The orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayer books are probably almost the same. But the East is a lot more liturgical and doesn't have as many short private prayers like you find in Latin prayer books, which I think is what there talking about.

I also have an Orthodox prayer book kicking around somewhere. I do not agree with Melkite is saying that I place those prayers above the Catholic, but above modern Catholic. The modern Catholic prayers seem to have a large difference with their counterparts of pre-Vatican II. I don't necessarily hate post Vatican II prayers, but my preference lies with pre.

Aren't the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic prayers almost the same though? I have an Orthodox book with the akathist hymns and such. If those are the same prayers as those of the Eastern Rites, then he would not be putting Orthodox above Catholic if I'm right.

I definitely prefer the Eastern prayers over the many of the post VII prayers as well. But old Latin prayer books help solve that problem too  :).
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#27
Truthfully, if they're not heretical and if you're saying them to give praise and honor to God I don't see the problem.  Many saints have spoke of the virtues involved in private and meditative prayer which is not written out or approved by the church (insofar as it isn't formally scripted) so I don't see the problem as long as the prayer is respectful and consistent with Church teachings, done with the intent to honor and glorify God.

Although if one is to pray formally, I don't really see the point of not just saying Catholic prayers.  But that doesn't mean one shouldn't or can't. 
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#28
If you want to do some research on your own , try to find a copy of St. Francis Xavier's  original prayer for the conversion of the pagans in the Far East. His prayer was soo hard core that over the last several decades it has been changed. The newest Novus Ordo one attributted to him is a mere fraction of what he had to say. I wish i had it available. There was also a popular book written just before Vatican 2 by a modernist Jesuit that had the audacity to rip St. Francis for not respecting the far east religions of the East since they came 600 years before Christ. You could see where the Church was headed just by reading that book. This priest failed to realize that Christianity goes back beyond Christ all the way to Adam, JESUS was the long awaited desire. of the Patriarchs and the chosen people the Jews who were chosen to announce Jesus to the world, instead they crucified him , the rest is eternal history.
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