Does the New Mass fulfill the notion of Catholic liturgy?
#21
(06-09-2011, 08:51 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Our deacon has never raised his hands like the priest at the consecration or during any part of the Mass. His hands are always folded.. except for during the "through him, with him, in him.." when the deacon raises the chalice and the priests lifts the Host.

This cannot be "concelebrated" a Mass, as others have said.

I've seen some deacons do the "orans" when saying "Let us offer one another the sign of peace". But I've not seen the deacon at papal Masses doing that when saying it (Offerte vobis pacem). So hands-folded is probably the correct posture for all times.
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#22
Actually this particular monastery had lots of brothers but it was a holiday weekend (I was there on a Monday) and I guess like 15 parish priests from nearby or wherever decided to be at the mass. That's what it appeared to be at any rate.
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#23
(06-09-2011, 08:59 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: Actually this particular monastery had lots of brothers but it was a holiday weekend (I was there on a Monday) and I guess like 15 parish priests from nearby or wherever decided to be at the mass. That's what it appeared to be at any rate.

If most of the priests were diocesan, that makes more sense.

Reminds me of when I saw some pictures of my local seminary's chapel taken before Vatican II. They didn't have choir stalls back then, either! Horrific!
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#24
The_Harlequin_King Wrote:I've seen some deacons do the "orans" when saying "Let us offer one another the sign of peace". But I've not seen the deacon at papal Masses doing that when saying it (Offerte vobis pacem). So hands-folded is probably the correct posture for all times.

Our church does it exactly the way Rome does it. By the way, I enjoyed your article on the diacionate. You can still be a permanent deacon in the future. You can be married, only before ordination. I'm sure you know that. We have two deacons and both are married. They also do exactly as you say in your article, turning from the priest at the end of Mass to dismiss them. He sings it now for the Easter season "the Mass is ended go in peace.. Alleluia."  And he either speaks or sings the Kyrie. He prepares the altar and raises the chalice at the "through him, with him" part... but he has never raised his hands, like the deacon in the picture on page 1. 
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#25
I was surprised at the paragraph that began:
Quote:As regards the descending aspect of prayer by which God's blessings are called down upon men, a rite of prayer will be legitimate insofar as it disposes man to receive these blessings.

I expected him to say something to the effect of: a rite of prayer will be legitimate insofar as it disposes God to call down His blessings upon men. This would address the issue directly and objectively, instead of merely in the context of human psychology. It's the idea of the Mass being a propitiatory sacrifice. This aspect of the prayers of the Roman Rite is present in the Offertory, which offers up Christ the Victim in order to dispose God to send down His Grace upon sinful creatures. This idea is conspicuously absent from the Novus Ordo "Presentation of Gifts," which instead offers God the fruit of our labor (as if our ability to make bread and wine is supposed to accomplish something in the sight of God).

Granted, the psychological aspect of creating an environment that disposes men to receive Grace is important, too. But he doesn't address that issue, he only brings it up briefly later in order to vaguely cast suspicion on the new rite. I would have liked to hear his thoughts about how, specifically, the sacrificial aspect of the Mass finds any place at all in the new rite.
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#26
(06-09-2011, 09:17 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: Our church does it exactly the way Rome does it. By the way, I enjoyed your article on the diacionate. You can still be a permanent deacon in the future. You can be married, only before ordination. I'm sure you know that. We have two deacons and both are married. They also do exactly as you say in your article, turning from the priest at the end of Mass to dismiss them. He sings it now for the Easter season "the Mass is ended go in peace.. Alleluia."  And he either speaks or sings the Kyrie. He prepares the altar and raises the chalice at the "through him, with him" part... but he has never raised his hands, like the deacon in the picture on page 1. 

Thanks!

I don't personally have a problem with married deacons and I'd like to become one in the future. However, I don't want to be in a situation where I can't minister to trads because of the stigma attached to being a married deacon. In all seriousness, what's best for God's flock is what I care about. I have 12 years to discern God's will on that subject, though, since I won't be 35 until then. So it's not really on my list of priorities....
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#27
I don't see the "concelebration" description on the image anymore; it probably was a mistake (or oversight) and has been corrected. Nevertheless, should a "typo" like that discredit the entire article which makes some very "legitimate" and "valid" points that are directly in line with the Ottaviani Intervention:  http://sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/brief_critical...ention.pdf.
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