Why does everyone blame God when bad things happen?
(06-22-2011, 01:07 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 01:04 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 01:00 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:25 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:22 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:21 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:12 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: To answer very simply the question of "why do people blame God when bad things happen?"

Because we are prideful and search for immediate and temporal comforts to our consternation instead of trusting in God.  Also, a "bad thing" must be evaluated and seen if it is really bad.  We see inconveniences to our social lives as cataclysmic events indicative of end times.  Human narcissism and self-centeredness knows no boundaries.  I'm sure some women blame God if they get pregnant.  We blame God because it is too humbling to acknowledge our own shortcomings (in the case that an event truly is "bad") and in the situations where there is no one to blame (of which there are many) it is easier to blame God than to trust in His providence.

It's a matter of perspective.  So-called bad things that happen are sometimes not bad at all, as subsequent developments may show.  My point is that everything is good, except sin.

Except for those things that are neutral.


What things are neutral?

Quite a few.  TV, moderate drinking, playing sports, talking about the weather. 

I don't want to disappoint you.... but.... everything we consciously and voluntarily do is either good or bad.

I'm not so sure about that.  Assuming that good= spiritually edifying and bad=spiritually destroying or hurtful?  Is this what we're talking about?  Where would you put watching a baseball game in that category?  Good or evil?

Read session 6. THe DESIRE TO RECEIVE BAPTISM is not salvific, it is a necessary disposition. THe immediate instrumental cause of our justification is baptism alone. When Trent says that none can be saved without baptism or the desire thereof, they mean NO ONE can be saved without desiring baptism, and being baptized. THis interpreatation is spelled out in session 6, AND in the Catechism of the Council of Trent, where it lists the foremost necessary disposition for receiving baptism is the DESIRE TO RECEIVE baptism.

Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised,-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism

The faithful are also to be instructed in the necessary dispositions for Baptism. In the first place they must desire and intend to receive it; for as in Baptism we all die to sin and resolve to live a new life, it is fit that it be administered to those only who receive it of their own free will and accord; it is to be forced upon none.
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(06-22-2011, 10:14 PM)Gregory I Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 01:07 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 01:04 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 01:00 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:25 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:22 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:21 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 12:12 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: To answer very simply the question of "why do people blame God when bad things happen?"

Because we are prideful and search for immediate and temporal comforts to our consternation instead of trusting in God.  Also, a "bad thing" must be evaluated and seen if it is really bad.  We see inconveniences to our social lives as cataclysmic events indicative of end times.  Human narcissism and self-centeredness knows no boundaries.  I'm sure some women blame God if they get pregnant.  We blame God because it is too humbling to acknowledge our own shortcomings (in the case that an event truly is "bad") and in the situations where there is no one to blame (of which there are many) it is easier to blame God than to trust in His providence.

It's a matter of perspective.  So-called bad things that happen are sometimes not bad at all, as subsequent developments may show.  My point is that everything is good, except sin.

Except for those things that are neutral.


What things are neutral?

Quite a few.  TV, moderate drinking, playing sports, talking about the weather. 

I don't want to disappoint you.... but.... everything we consciously and voluntarily do is either good or bad.

I'm not so sure about that.  Assuming that good= spiritually edifying and bad=spiritually destroying or hurtful?  Is this what we're talking about?  Where would you put watching a baseball game in that category?  Good or evil?

Read session 6. THe DESIRE TO RECEIVE BAPTISM is not salvific, it is a necessary disposition. THe immediate instrumental cause of our justification is baptism alone. When Trent says that none can be saved without baptism or the desire thereof, they mean NO ONE can be saved without desiring baptism, and being baptized. THis interpreatation is spelled out in session 6, AND in the Catechism of the Council of Trent, where it lists the foremost necessary disposition for receiving baptism is the DESIRE TO RECEIVE baptism.

Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised,-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism

The faithful are also to be instructed in the necessary dispositions for Baptism. In the first place they must desire and intend to receive it; for as in Baptism we all die to sin and resolve to live a new life, it is fit that it be administered to those only who receive it of their own free will and accord; it is to be forced upon none.




Baptism of desire and Baptism of blood are not sacraments.  Baptism of water must be administered as soon as possible no matter what for salvation.  However, as Pope Pius IX says,in cases of invincible ignorance, we trust that Merciful God Almighty will not condemn the unbaptized because of the sin of infidelity... although He could perhaps for other sins.   
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But Pope Pius IX does NOT say that, he says that we can trust that God will not condemn anyone who is not personally guilty. But he did not say by what means an invincibly ignorant person MIGHT be saved. I contend that if someone REALLY desires Christ, then Christ will make the Sacraments available, miracuolously if need be. One thing is for sure, they will not be saved without Faith, repentance, and charity and baptism. ALL these things are absolute necessities according to trent and the Catechism of the Council of Trent.

Unless you are saying we can be saved without the sacraments.
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(06-22-2011, 10:44 PM)Gregory I Wrote: But Pope Pius IX does NOT say that, he says that we can trust that God will not condemn anyone who is not personally guilty. But he did not say by what means an invincibly ignorant person MIGHT be saved. I contend that if someone REALLY desires Christ, then Christ will make the Sacraments available, miracuolously if need be. One thing is for sure, they will not be saved without Faith, repentance, and charity and baptism. ALL these things are absolute necessities according to trent and the Catechism of the Council of Trent.

Unless you are saying we can be saved without the sacraments.


Today, we live in a desert.  True valid sanctifying sacraments are practically non-existent.  Today, more than ever, we must rely on the Mercy of God.  The Apocalypse speaks of a woman (the Church spoken of by St. Athansius) forced onto the desert (no sacraments and no social life) where she avoids the vomit (heresies of Vatican Council II) of the Dragon (Lucifer).
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That's a rather speculative, one-sided and flawed interpretation. The woman is MAry, and the wings represent her deliverance form Herod and flight into egypt. THat's one VALID interpretation anyway.
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(06-22-2011, 11:31 PM)Gregory I Wrote: That's a rather speculative, one-sided and flawed interpretation. The woman is MAry, and the wings represent her deliverance form Herod and flight into egypt. THat's one VALID interpretation anyway.

It is indeed a valid interpretation. However, we are living in the year 2011.  I think the Apocalypse applies to our time as well if not more so.
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to the OP:

Because it's taboo in our modern culture to continually blame the Jews.

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(06-23-2011, 12:02 AM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: to the OP:

Because it's taboo in our modern culture to continually blame the Jews.

We have to make a distinction.  In the natural order of things, ordinary jews are good people, hardworking and decent.  I love them for their fair play and justice in all commercial dealings.  They keep their word.  In this sense they are loyal good friends.  When they sign a contract with gentiles it's as good as gold.  They are submissive to the Torah which imposes on them such law-abiding conduct.

However, a very small percentage... perhaps less than 1% are talmudic rabbinical masonic jews.  These are the ones that attack Christianity with all means available.  And speaking of jews, the Apocalypse tells of their conversion unto Christianity towards the end of the world.
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(06-23-2011, 12:20 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-23-2011, 12:02 AM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: to the OP:

Because it's taboo in our modern culture to continually blame the Jews.

We have to make a distinction.  In the natural order of things, ordinary jews are good people, hardworking and decent.  I love them for their fair play and justice in all commercial dealings.  They keep their word.  In this sense they are loyal good friends.  When they sign a contract with gentiles it's as good as gold.  They are submissive to the Torah which imposes on them such law-abiding conduct.

However, a very small percentage... perhaps less than 1% are talmudic rabbinical masonic jews.  These are the one that attack Christianity with all means available.  And speaking of jews, the Apocalypse tells of their conversion unto Christianity towards the end of the world.

Well thanks for killing that joke.
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(06-23-2011, 12:24 AM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(06-23-2011, 12:20 AM)wulfrano Wrote:
(06-23-2011, 12:02 AM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: to the OP:

Because it's taboo in our modern culture to continually blame the Jews.

We have to make a distinction.  In the natural order of things, ordinary jews are good people, hardworking and decent.  I love them for their fair play and justice in all commercial dealings.  They keep their word.  In this sense they are loyal good friends.  When they sign a contract with gentiles it's as good as gold.  They are submissive to the Torah which imposes on them such law-abiding conduct.

However, a very small percentage... perhaps less than 1% are talmudic rabbinical masonic jews.  These are the one that attack Christianity with all means available.  And speaking of jews, the Apocalypse tells of their conversion unto Christianity towards the end of the world.

Well thanks for killing that joke.

Only on Fisheaters!
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