Why does everyone blame God when bad things happen?
#81
(06-18-2011, 04:51 PM)Gregory I Wrote:
(06-18-2011, 04:25 PM)Joshua Wrote:
(06-18-2011, 10:46 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Suarez was no friend to Augustinians.

... which a Catholic is free to be.

Regardless, I adhere to the Thomistic understanding of the Limbo of the Infants which states:

(A) The only punishment unbaptized infants endure is the deprivation of the Beatific Vision
(B) Punishment is proportionate to fault. Sensible pain is due to actual sins and, having died before having committed any actual sin, these infants do not deserve that suffering.
© The privation of the Beatific Vision is not a source of pain for unbaptized infants. These souls have no knowledge of the supernatural destiny they have missed, this knowledge being itself supernatural, and as such not included in what is naturally due to the separated soul. ("no wise man grieves for being unable to fly like a bird.")
(D) Unbaptized infants enjoy natural happiness.

Read post #58 for citations.

I agree with A in the sense that the unbaptized do not suffer Fire.
B. Punishment is proportionate to fault. The problem is, that the Guilt of original sin is in each as his own sin. THis is explicitly taught in at least 3 places in session 5 and 6 of the council of trent.
C. THen in what sense are they punished?
D. THen in what sense are they punished?

THe church clearly teaches they endure punishment. So, if they don't feel it, it isn't real.


Even though they might not know it, or feel it, deprivation of the Beatific Vision is indeed punishment, at least objectively speakig.
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#82
Trent trumps Suarez. Just like that. ;D

THe Catechism of the COuncil of Trent ITSELF teaches what I have been saying: Trent taught that BOTH the DESIRE for baptism and baptism itself, are necessary for ALL for salvation.

We MUST desire baptism in order to be properly disposed (or the baptism becomes an act of sacrilege), and we must then be baptized to be saved. But the one who is disposed is not justified because of his disposition, Only the one ACTUALLY baptized. Trent taught thus, and the Catechism of Trent taught thus. THeologians, BOW.  ;D
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#83
(06-19-2011, 01:37 AM)Gregory I Wrote: Trent trumps Suarez. Just like that. ;D

THe Catechism of the COuncil of Trent ITSELF teaches what I have been saying: Trent taught that BOTH the DESIRE for baptism and baptism itself, are necessary for ALL for salvation.

We MUST desire baptism in order to be properly disposed (or the baptism becomes an act of sacrilege), and we must then be baptized to be saved. But the one who is disposed is not justified because of his disposition, Only the one ACTUALLY baptized. Trent taught thus, and the Catechism of Trent taught thus. THeologians, BOW.  ;D

The latin word "aut" means "or".
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#84
"A related question: why does everyone thank God when something good happens? And by "good", I mean like your favorite team winning the Super Bowl, winning a bet on a horse race, or scoring a second date."

It's a good question too. In America, sports is put on a pedastal as part of our national religion as is soccer in many countries. I find it amazing that we say our national anthem at sporting events and actually believe God cares who wins the Super Bowl. But wouldn't you say this is part of the perversion found in today's world and proves the removal of God from the hearts of men? 

I don't think it is bad to thank God for all of our good things though. This reminds us that we are not alone and shows obedience and gratitude towards a higher power.
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#85
An the latin word SINE means "without" not "except through." MEaning NONE can be saved WITHOUT baptism or its desire. The two are taken together. You cannot be married without a bride or groom. You cannot be saved without baptism or its desire. BECAUSE you need to actually DESIRE baptism to receive it worthily. The Catechism spells this out.
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#86
(06-19-2011, 03:58 PM)mistman Wrote: "A related question: why does everyone thank God when something good happens? And by "good", I mean like your favorite team winning the Super Bowl, winning a bet on a horse race, or scoring a second date."

It's a good question too. In America, sports is put on a pedastal as part of our national religion as is soccer in many countries. I find it amazing that we say our national anthem at sporting events and actually believe God cares who wins the Super Bowl. But wouldn't you say this is part of the perversion found in today's world and proves the removal of God from the hearts of men? 

I don't think it is bad to thank God for all of our good things though. This reminds us that we are not alone and shows obedience and gratitude towards a higher power.

I love the Yankees playing in the World Series, USC playing in the Rose Bowl, San Diego Chargers playing in the NFL playoffs, Mexico playing in the World Cup... what's wrong with that?  God gives natural good pleasures.  Enjoy them!  I suppose ladies of this Forum would say the same thing, but only as regards special meals and delicate foods such as clam chowder, KFC, black angus meat, chicken pot-pie, turkey pot-pie, chili beans, cheesecake, Monterey Jack Cheese, asparagus-radish-turnip-pumpkin salad.   
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#87
I haven't read much of what people had to say here because I'm late to the convo, but for me it seems that it is an easy out.  I even know supposed "atheists" or "agnostics" who will blame God for the bad things.
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#88
(06-21-2011, 10:31 PM)NigelWatts13 Wrote: I haven't read much of what people had to say here because I'm late to the convo, but for me it seems that it is an easy out.  I even know supposed "atheists" or "agnostics" who will blame God for the bad things.

=P before i clicked on this thread i was thinking the same thing people just want someone to blame and an easy way out.
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#89
(06-21-2011, 11:38 PM)Gorgondie Wrote:
(06-21-2011, 10:31 PM)NigelWatts13 Wrote: I haven't read much of what people had to say here because I'm late to the convo, but for me it seems that it is an easy out.  I even know supposed "atheists" or "agnostics" who will blame God for the bad things.

=P before i clicked on this thread i was thinking the same thing people just want someone to blame and an easy way out.

I agree.  We all tend to blame others instead of blaming ourselves first.
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#90
To answer very simply the question of "why do people blame God when bad things happen?"

Because we are prideful and search for immediate and temporal comforts to our consternation instead of trusting in God.  Also, a "bad thing" must be evaluated and seen if it is really bad.  We see inconveniences to our social lives as cataclysmic events indicative of end times.  Human narcissism and self-centeredness knows no boundaries.  I'm sure some women blame God if they get pregnant.  We blame God because it is too humbling to acknowledge our own shortcomings (in the case that an event truly is "bad") and in the situations where there is no one to blame (of which there are many) it is easier to blame God than to trust in His providence.
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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