Why the Mass in Latin?
#58
(06-15-2011, 08:56 AM)Rosarium Wrote: The Nicene Creed was altered for liturgical use by both the East and West. The problems people have with it are seemingly just excuses. While in traditional Eastern theology it does not really make sense, it does work if understood properly, but it is not essential to the Creed. For example, the Apostles Creed does not explicitly say there is one God. Using the Creed in its original approved form is just as acceptable as a proper alteration to it as long as one is not denying teachings of the Church, there is no reason to add to the Creed. It is very selective in what it professes. Lack of profession does not mean denial.

Lack of explicit profession does not necessarily mean denial, but it definitely makes denial a lot easier. I've met a number of Eastern "Catholics" who deny outright that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. One way to root out this heresy would be to mandate the use of the Filioque whenever the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is recited liturgically.

(06-15-2011, 08:56 AM)Rosarium Wrote: It is not by man's power that Transubstantiation takes place.

Of course it is by the power of God that transubstantiation occurs; I never said otherwise. What I was saying is that the Words of Institution alone constitute the form of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, and the "Epiklesis" is no part of the form.

(06-15-2011, 08:56 AM)Rosarium Wrote: And your statements are in contractidiction to what the Latin church publishes to be believed:

Quote:1333 In corde celebrationis Eucharistiae habentur panis et vinum quae, per Christi verba et per Spiritus Sancti invocationem, corpus et sanguis Christi fiunt. Ecclesia, mandato Domini fidelis, in Eius memoriam, usque ad reditum Eius gloriosum, agere pergit id quod Ipse Suae passionis egit pridie: « Accepit panem... », « Accepit calicem, ex genimine vitis repletum... ». Panis et vini signa, cum corpus et sanguis Christi arcano modo efficiuntur, creationis etiam significare pergunt bonitatem. Sic in Offertorio, gratias agimus Creatori propter panem et vinum, 307 fructum « operis manuum hominum », sed etiam prius « fructum terrae » atque « vitis », Creatoris igitur dona. Ecclesia in gestu Melchisedech, regis et sacerdotis, qui protulit « panem et vinum » (Gn 14,18), propriae suae oblationis perspicit praefigurationem.

CCC Wrote:1333 At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ's Body and Blood. Faithful to the Lord's command the Church continues to do, in his memory and until his glorious return, what he did on the eve of his Passion: "He took bread...." "He took the cup filled with wine...." the signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ; they continue also to signify the goodness of creation. Thus in the Offertory we give thanks to the Creator for bread and wine,152 fruit of the "work of human hands," but above all as "fruit of the earth" and "of the vine" - gifts of the Creator. the Church sees in the gesture of the king-priest Melchizedek, who "brought out bread and wine," a prefiguring of her own offering.

The CCC, as it is so often, is ambiguous in specifying what the form of the Eucharist is. The Council of Florence, though, is incredibly clear, "The words of the Savior, by which He instituted this sacrament, are the form of this sacrament" (Denzinger 698).
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Why the Mass in Latin? - by Petertherock - 06-12-2011, 08:45 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Maldon - 06-12-2011, 10:04 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by LausTibiChriste - 06-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by The Curt Jester - 06-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by mikemac - 06-13-2011, 12:39 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Stubborn - 06-13-2011, 12:49 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by CrusaderKing - 06-13-2011, 01:18 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-13-2011, 03:41 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Historian - 06-13-2011, 04:00 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by jovan66102 - 06-13-2011, 04:43 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by mikemac - 06-14-2011, 01:32 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by GottmitunsAlex - 06-14-2011, 01:36 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-14-2011, 07:08 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-14-2011, 07:12 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Aragon - 06-14-2011, 08:43 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-14-2011, 09:38 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by salus - 06-14-2011, 12:04 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-14-2011, 12:11 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by jovan66102 - 06-14-2011, 12:23 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Historian - 06-14-2011, 03:43 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-14-2011, 03:45 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Scipio_a - 06-14-2011, 09:48 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 09:49 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 09:53 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 10:00 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-14-2011, 10:02 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 10:09 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-14-2011, 10:24 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-14-2011, 10:32 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by salus - 06-14-2011, 10:54 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-14-2011, 11:36 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-15-2011, 12:47 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 01:51 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-15-2011, 02:11 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by mikemac - 06-15-2011, 03:34 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-15-2011, 06:14 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-15-2011, 07:00 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Historian - 06-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-15-2011, 08:51 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Historian - 06-15-2011, 08:56 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 08:56 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-15-2011, 08:57 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 09:06 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-15-2011, 09:10 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-15-2011, 09:16 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 09:24 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 09:31 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-15-2011, 09:35 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 09:38 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by salus - 06-15-2011, 07:12 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by salus - 06-15-2011, 07:13 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-15-2011, 07:14 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Historian - 06-15-2011, 07:54 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 01:43 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 02:00 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 02:24 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 02:28 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 02:33 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-16-2011, 02:44 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 02:46 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 02:54 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 03:02 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-16-2011, 03:04 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 03:09 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 03:18 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 03:24 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-16-2011, 10:50 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-16-2011, 10:55 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 11:00 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 11:34 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 11:54 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 12:27 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 12:42 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-16-2011, 01:07 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 01:47 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-16-2011, 01:57 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 02:01 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 06:25 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 06:44 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-16-2011, 07:07 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-16-2011, 09:46 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by K3vinhood - 06-16-2011, 09:51 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Marc - 06-17-2011, 12:23 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-17-2011, 12:28 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-17-2011, 12:33 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Resurrexi - 06-17-2011, 12:44 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Unum Sint - 06-17-2011, 12:50 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-17-2011, 06:33 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-17-2011, 06:57 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-17-2011, 08:46 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-17-2011, 11:09 AM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-17-2011, 12:34 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Someone1776 - 06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by devotedknuckles - 06-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Melkite - 06-17-2011, 08:56 PM
Re: Why the Mass in Latin? - by Vetus Ordo - 06-17-2011, 11:15 PM



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