I interrupted the homily yesterday
#11
(06-12-2011, 11:09 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Even a priest who says things that contradict church teaching deserves some respect, particularly one that is still in good standing with the church (although hopefully for not much longer if he continues to engage in this behavior).  Remember you are only formally a heretic if the church informs you that your thinking is heretical and you continue to engage in this heresy. He has holy orders.  I have heard some horrendous things from the pulpit but have never ever as so much walked out.  The sermon is in many ways the least important part of the Mass.  Are you there to hear the priest talk or to receive Christ? If Christ has to suffer through this shouldn't you keep him company?

Also think what would happen at Mass every time a member of the laity decided what the priest was saying was wrong if they responded by yelling at the Priest?  As Catholics we don't believe in the priesthood of all believers.  The church is a hierarchy and we must respect that hierarchy.  Now when a priest goes astray there are ways to address this, but interrupting the sermon is not one of them. 

Guy had his kids there. Kinda a catch 22, really.
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#12
Well done.  It is appropriate.  I think one of the main heretical clashes in Europe (Nestorian?) got underway when a layman rose up in the congregation and denounced a priest/bishop for heresy during a sermon.
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#13
(06-12-2011, 11:20 PM)Heinrich Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:09 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Even a priest who says things that contradict church teaching deserves some respect, particularly one that is still in good standing with the church (although hopefully for not much longer if he continues to engage in this behavior).  Remember you are only formally a heretic if the church informs you that your thinking is heretical and you continue to engage in this heresy. He has holy orders.  I have heard some horrendous things from the pulpit but have never ever as so much walked out.  The sermon is in many ways the least important part of the Mass.  Are you there to hear the priest talk or to receive Christ? If Christ has to suffer through this shouldn't you keep him company?

Also think what would happen at Mass every time a member of the laity decided what the priest was saying was wrong if they responded by yelling at the Priest?  As Catholics we don't believe in the priesthood of all believers.  The church is a hierarchy and we must respect that hierarchy.  Now when a priest goes astray there are ways to address this, but interrupting the sermon is not one of them. 

Guy had his kids there. Kinda a catch 22, really.

As a good nun once told me, there is nothing wrong with putting cotton balls into your ears and saying the rosary during the sermon. 
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#14
St. Francis of Sales


The declared enemies of God and His Church, heretics and schismatics, must be criticized as much as possible, as long as truth is not denied.

It is a work of charity to shout: "Here is the wolf!" when it enters the flock or anywhere else.


(Introduction to the Devout Life, part III, chap. 29)
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#15
Someone needed to stop that madness. It may have been a little inappropriate, but I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing.
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#16
(06-12-2011, 11:14 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:10 PM)tradne4163 Wrote: I agree that it was heresy, but publically calling the priest a heretic like that was not appropriate. Only God judges His priests. I know that what he said was maddening. But you would have set a better example by leaving quietly.

That's misusing the judging argument which so many non-Catholics like to do against us, yes God will be the ultimate judge, but not speaking out against heresy, ESPECIALLY when being perpetrated by a priest, is wrong. If the priest was saying heretical things, we have a duty to speak up lest we sin by omission and I for one applaud the OP for his actions..I doubt I'd have enough balls to do it myself.
I agree that heresy is to be opposed, and had the OP stopped at condemning the hersy being taught, I would applaud him as well. However, publicly calling the priest a heretic is what I take issue with. I highly doubt God would approve of that.
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#17
(06-12-2011, 11:19 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:14 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:10 PM)tradne4163 Wrote: I agree that it was heresy, but publically calling the priest a heretic like that was not appropriate. Only God judges His priests. I know that what he said was maddening. But you would have set a better example by leaving quietly.

That's misusing the judging argument which so many non-Catholics like to do against us, yes God will be the ultimate judge, but not speaking out against heresy, ESPECIALLY when being perpetrated by a priest, is wrong. If the priest was saying heretical things, we have a duty to speak up lest we sin by omission and I for one applaud the OP for his actions..I doubt I'd have enough balls to do it myself.

Would you really like it if ALL Catholics decided to judge whether their priests were heretical every Sunday, and to begin to loudly proclaiming their judgments in the middle of the sermon?  There are ways to address a priest saying reprehensible things during the sermon.  Yelling at the priest in the middle of the sermon is not one of them. 

No of course, I don't argue with you there. But there are times indeed when it would be necessary. I wasn't there, I don't know exactly what the priest said, but you can't call it wrong all the time.
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#18
(06-12-2011, 11:25 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:19 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:14 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(06-12-2011, 11:10 PM)tradne4163 Wrote: I agree that it was heresy, but publically calling the priest a heretic like that was not appropriate. Only God judges His priests. I know that what he said was maddening. But you would have set a better example by leaving quietly.

That's misusing the judging argument which so many non-Catholics like to do against us, yes God will be the ultimate judge, but not speaking out against heresy, ESPECIALLY when being perpetrated by a priest, is wrong. If the priest was saying heretical things, we have a duty to speak up lest we sin by omission and I for one applaud the OP for his actions..I doubt I'd have enough balls to do it myself.

Would you really like it if ALL Catholics decided to judge whether their priests were heretical every Sunday, and to begin to loudly proclaiming their judgments in the middle of the sermon?  There are ways to address a priest saying reprehensible things during the sermon.  Yelling at the priest in the middle of the sermon is not one of them. 

No of course, I don't argue with you there. But there are times indeed when it would be necessary. I wasn't there, I don't know exactly what the priest said, but you can't call it wrong all the time.

And lets say the OP were to contact the Bishop about this. The way he reacted would immediately make him suspect and probably make it less likely for the Bishop to do anything.  I don't think even the most conservative Bishop would support a lay person interrupting the sermon even if that lay person was completely right.   

Reminds me of a documentary I watched last week on Father Kennedy in Australia (who had Buddah in the church and performed gay marriages), the parishioner that caused his downfall by contacting the Vatican was very unassuming and even seemingly respectful toward the priest although he did tell the priest himself, his Bishop, and his Pope that he had fallen into some very dangerous waters.
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#19
An interesting issue. I must say I greatly sympathize with the OP. There's a great story about a viking huscarl who over dinner was hearing a flatterer ply his king with sycophantic words. The huscarl rose up and struck off the flatterer's head. When the king's guards moved to put the man to death, he noted that if he acted rashly it was only because it hurt him so much to hear his king plied with deceptions.

But keep in mind that such behavior, however glamorous, is the way of pagans. And keep in mind too that your King was present in the Tabernacle. Impoverished as it may have been, that Mass was for His glory. So it's a big deal to disrupt it.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it sounds as if you acted in good faith. But I think the better way to approach it is to wait until afterward and bawl the priest out in the narthex. That's how I've handled it at least.

Also, as noted, it's sensible to call his words heresy but the priest cannot be judged as a formal heretic except by the proper authorities.
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#20
(06-12-2011, 10:54 PM)mcwhite Wrote: I am on holiday at the moment and went to a local parish I would never normally attend. I have not been to the Novus Ordo in over a year and only went to keep peace in the extended family.

When the Preist got up and defended Bishop Morris in his homily, implicitly supported women's ordination and denigrated the Holy Father I could listen no longer. I stood up and said loudly but calmly to the whole congregation, "I can listen to this heresy no longer Father. You are a heretic." I then walked out of the Church with my wife and the two children we had with us. Suffice to say none of the locals joined my little walk-out.

I am not sure if my approach was effective or charitable. Nonetheless, I'd probably do it again.

As I have said to the Priest concerned since in an email, I apologise for interrupting your homily but I do not apologise for calling you a heretic.

Any thoughts (constructive criticism welcomed)....?

"Not to oppose error is to approve it, and not to defend truth is to suppress it, and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them."
Pope St. Felix III

:salute:
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