Do you believe the Novus Ordo Mass invalid?
(06-14-2011, 02:40 PM)dan hunter Wrote: "However, I do believe the MASS of Pope Paul VI, which was enforce from around 1965 to 1970 was in fact Valid."

So where does one find a list of Masses of Pope Paul VI, if one wanted to assist at one?

They don't exist!!
The EWTN MASS is probably the closest to it, but they still use the NOM text during the Consecration of the Bread and Wine.(Still use "For All"instead of "Many")
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(06-14-2011, 02:43 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:39 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:34 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
Quote:Again, catch-22.  :)

And,of course we never had Anti-Popes or indeed Popes who have promulgated error....is that what your trying to tell us? 

Can you name any Popes prior to 1900 that ever preached heresy while heresy while Pope. Can you cite any period where the seat of saint Peter was vacant for decades on end.

Christ told Saint Peter that hell would never breach the gates of the church so this would seem to preclude either events from happening. 

Why don't you just come out and say you are a sede?     

A  We aren't necessarily  talking about heresy here if ignornace is at fault.

B There is zero significance to the length of time the Seat may be empty, in theory, if God deems it appropriate punishment  (if indeed the seat is empty....totally different debate)

C Who says that a period of Trial and punishment for the Church is equivalent to Hell prevailing!?

D Your all over the place.

Simple question: is Benedict XVI the Pope? 

Yes or no? 
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(06-14-2011, 02:48 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:43 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:39 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:34 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
Quote:Again, catch-22.  :)

And,of course we never had Anti-Popes or indeed Popes who have promulgated error....is that what your trying to tell us? 

Can you name any Popes prior to 1900 that ever preached heresy while heresy while Pope. Can you cite any period where the seat of saint Peter was vacant for decades on end.

Christ told Saint Peter that hell would never breach the gates of the church so this would seem to preclude either events from happening. 

Why don't you just come out and say you are a sede?     

A  We aren't necessarily  talking about heresy here if ignornace is at fault.

B There is zero significance to the length of time the Seat may be empty, in theory, if God deems it appropriate punishment  (if indeed the seat is empty....totally different debate)

C Who says that a period of Trial and punishment for the Church is equivalent to Hell prevailing!?

D Your all over the place.

Simple question: is Benedict XVI the Pope? 

Yes or no? 
I personally believe he is,not that that has any bearing on the validity or not of the manufactured New Order Mass.Your just squirming on the hook now...
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I believe it's valid. But the way it's been implemented has been, for the most part, crap.
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(06-14-2011, 02:53 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: I personally believe he is,not that that has any bearing on the validity or not of the manufactured New Order Mass.

Huh? A valid Pope who never celebrates a valid Mass?
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(06-14-2011, 02:55 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:53 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: I personally believe he is,not that that has any bearing on the validity or not of the manufactured New Order Mass.

Huh? A valid Pope who never celebrates a valid Mass?

you see...your just as confused as the others. Validity of the conferring of the position of Prince of the Church has nothing what-so-eva to do with honor,integrity, truthfulness, error in judgment etc and so on...

..one hopes that graces conferred help but history shows us this not always the case.
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(06-14-2011, 02:59 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:55 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 02:53 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: I personally believe he is,not that that has any bearing on the validity or not of the manufactured New Order Mass.

Huh? A valid Pope who never celebrates a valid Mass?

you see...your just as confused as the others. Validity of the conferring of the position of Prince of the Church has nothing what-so-eva to do with honor,integrity, truthfulness, error in judgment etc and so on...

..one hopes that graces conferred help but history shows us this not always the case.

Sounds to me like you just can't admit that your opinions lead directly to SV'ism, without logical escape.
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(06-14-2011, 02:39 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: Can you name any Popes prior to 1900 that ever preached heresy while heresy while Pope.

Popes are not impeccable beings, which means they flirt with and sometimes fall into heresy.

Besides the renowned case of John XXII, we have prior to 1900:

The Church condemned Honorious as a heretic and excommunicated him

Popes have taken 4 contrary positions on the fate of unbaptised infants

After Vatican II (just a brief sample):

John Paul II: universal salvation

101 heresies of John Paul II

101 heresies of Benedict XVI
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(06-14-2011, 03:05 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Sounds to me like you just can't admit that your opinions lead directly to SV'ism, without logical escape.

Well,as I pointed out,your confused, and so it would sound like this now wouldn't it.

I would love someone to show me where,in theory a period of crisis that entails the Church being rudderless,for a time,as punishment from God,cannot be theologically accepted.Serious commentators need only reply. The "Hell prevailing" quote does not cover this potentiality. A period of crisis does not equal Hell prevailing after all....obviously

So far no one has proposed a reasonable and sound argument as to why a man-made Mass,formulated by committee,in contravention to the Trent pronouncements,  is just as valid as the Divinely inspired one.Still waiting and I won't derailed by this sede nonsense , of  which I am not one.
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