Vatican Excommunicates Patriotic Chinese Bishops
#11
Did the Pope actually excommunicate these Bishops or permit a statement from some official that 'the Bishops excommunicated themselves.'

I don't mean to split hairs; either way this is a pleasant (and unexpected) turn of events.  But the question must be asked because I have trouble imagining an excommunication rite in the Novus Ordo.  For that matter, does the revised books even contain a rite of excommunication?

Again, whatever the case I do hope this becomes known to the the underground Catholics, true martyrs of our time.
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#12
(06-14-2011, 03:45 PM)kingtheoden Wrote: I don't mean to split hairs; either way this is a pleasant (and unexpected) turn of events.  But the question must be asked because I have trouble imagining an excommunication rite in the Novus Ordo.  For that matter, does the revised books even contain a rite of excommunication?

I think using rites for excommunications fell into desuetude long before Vatican II. I think they are generally just done with a decree from the relevant authority (either the subject's own bishop or the Apostolic See).
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#13
(06-14-2011, 03:46 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote:
(06-14-2011, 03:45 PM)kingtheoden Wrote: I don't mean to split hairs; either way this is a pleasant (and unexpected) turn of events.  But the question must be asked because I have trouble imagining an excommunication rite in the Novus Ordo.  For that matter, does the revised books even contain a rite of excommunication?

I think using rites for excommunications fell into desuetude long before Vatican II. I think they are generally just done with a decree from the relevant authority (either the subject's own bishop or the Apostolic See).

True enough; I think I was unclear though. 

I'm not talking about the full force books, candles, and bells with scores of monks chanting (although if used properly, this will shock most any Catholic into seeking absolution.)  What I meant was to ask whether or not there was an actual solemn proclaimation 'As Pope, successor to St. Peter, and in the name of holy mother Church, we excommunicate N. or something similar.

I could be way off track in my concerns, however I have serious questions regarding the force of law for any 'excommunication' that uses murky language like 'N. has excommunicated himself.'  In the case of the Chinese Patriotic Bishops I wouldn't doubt such a statement is true.  But it is not trully an authority pronouncing excommunication on anyone, but rather is a statement of presumed fact.

This is how I read the decree 'excommunicating' SSPX Bishops.  Sure, it was a tragic event (I mean, infamous deviants were promoted, the historical Faith culture smashed, and suspect heretics made Princes of the Church- but SSPX is publicly humiliated?) however the statement is not a  declaration of punishment but rather of an apparent fact.

I'm interested on the thoughts of the rest of the pond.
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#14
It's a matter of law and was under the old Code as well. Certain crimes are punished by excommunication Latæ sententiæ. That is the excommunication takes place automatically, on commission of the delict.

Here is the relevant Law:


TITLE IV. PENALTIES AND OTHER PUNISHMENTS (Cann. 1331 - 1340)


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4X.HTM
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#15
(06-14-2011, 05:19 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: It's a matter of law and was under the old Code as well. Certain crimes are punished by excommunication Latæ sententiæ. That is the excommunication takes place automatically, on commission of the delict.

Exactly.  In other words, excommunications latæ sententiæ the particular act itself causes the excommunication.  Any decree could be helpful in illustrating that the party is in a state of excommunication, but the decree does not pronounce the excommunication by the power of the revelant authority.

Obviously the Patriotic Chinese Bishops are in a state of excommunication, and it is good that the Vatican is publicly acknowledging this fact.  However, my original point was that strictly speaking, the Vatican did not excommunicate anyone; rather, the automatic excommunications of these Bishops were stated for what they were.
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#16
This is getting no coverage
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#17
AB News is covering it

sip sip
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#18
Pope Benedict excommunicates some Chi-coms and the world press is silent about it.  Interesting.
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#19
(06-14-2011, 03:44 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: No, it predated the Chinese situation. With the exception of a few special Sees (such as Utrecht, etc.) Rome has appointed bishops or required approval for centuries. While this practice predates the Council of Trent, it was formalized there as Pius VI later explained in 1791 as he applied this principle:

I sit corrected.
Can somebody explain the guinea pigs? ( :colt: )
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