Variations in SSPX and diocesan Mass
#41
(06-22-2011, 08:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Choir near the altar is good. The second picture, though, has them too close for comfort.

I don't like the choir near the altar but most especially not in front of the altar.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#42
(06-22-2011, 08:02 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Still missing something.  What is that couple doing?

Serving?  :P
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#43
(06-22-2011, 08:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Choir near the altar is good. The second picture, though, has them too close for comfort.

They should be at the back of the church! Pre-reformation most churches had the choir near the altar. When Protestants took over these former Catholic Churches they kept the choir near the altar.  Roman Catholics then assumed that if Protestants were okay with choirs near the altar than it must be bad and move the choir to the back of the church.  I approve this line of thinking.  I really do...

Yes, there is a history for having the choir near the altar, but back pre-reformation most choirs were all male and often made up of religious.  Today, I think it makes more sense for them to be in the back of the church.  
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#44
(06-22-2011, 08:05 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:02 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Still missing something.  What is that couple doing?

Serving?  :P

The presentations of gifts. 
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#45
(06-22-2011, 08:04 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Choir near the altar is good. The second picture, though, has them too close for comfort.

I don't like the choir near the altar but most especially not in front of the altar.

Actually, in front of the altar would be the ideal. Traditionally, this was so in older churches where the choir would seat in rows facing each other in a space between the sanctuary and the nave.

The altar would almost be invisible due to the rood screens and the choir. It's an arragement that is most fitting.
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#46
(06-22-2011, 08:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:04 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:03 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Choir near the altar is good. The second picture, though, has them too close for comfort.

I don't like the choir near the altar but most especially not in front of the altar.

Actually, in front of the altar would be the ideal. Traditionally, this was so in older churches where the choir would seat in rows facing each other in a space between the sanctuary and the nave.

The altar would almost be invisible due to the rood screens and the choir. It's an arragement that is most fitting.

Like the cloistered nuns all sing back there, yes that's nice that way. They're sort of like the angels at holy Mass.  :) In a different realm.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
Reply
#47
(06-22-2011, 08:08 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:05 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:02 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:01 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Communion in the hand, not kneeling. Table turned around, choir in front of the altar. Oh those are horrible scenes. I'd no idea those sorts of things were happening back then.

Still missing something.  What is that couple doing?

Serving?  :P

The presentations of gifts. 

Ah, see now I can tell that it's two different pictures. Before I thought it was all happening during holy Communion and I didn't know what the heck was happening.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
Reply
#48
(06-22-2011, 08:04 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: I don't like the choir near the altar but most especially not in front of the altar.

The reason why having the choir near the altar is good is to emphasize the unity between singing and serving at Mass: they are the same. Also, to give a place for clerics to sit "in choir". Also, for servers to still participate in choir when there isn't enough room for all to serve as acolytes.

Someone1776 Wrote:Yes, there is a history for having the choir near the altar, but back pre-reformation most choirs were all male and often made up of religious.  Today, I think it makes more sense for them to be in the back of the church.  

I'm all for returning to a model of all-male choirs in cassock and surplice. This is what my schola does. A secondary choir for polyphony, with mixed sexes, can sit in the back of the church.


This is an excellent video example of choir stalls at an SSPX seminary. Ideally every local parish or chapel could look like this.

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#49
(06-22-2011, 08:15 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:04 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: I don't like the choir near the altar but most especially not in front of the altar.

The reason why having the choir near the altar is good is to emphasize the unity between singing and serving at Mass: they are the same. Also, to give a place for clerics to sit "in choir". Also, for servers to still participate in choir when there isn't enough room for all to serve as acolytes.

Someone1776 Wrote:Yes, there is a history for having the choir near the altar, but back pre-reformation most choirs were all male and often made up of religious.  Today, I think it makes more sense for them to be in the back of the church.  

I'm all for returning to a model of all-male choirs in cassock and surplice. This is what my schola does. A secondary choir for polyphony, with mixed sexes, can sit in the back of the church.


This is an excellent video example of choir stalls at an SSPX seminary. Ideally every local parish or chapel could look like this.


I can see that, but the reality is if you build room for the choir near the altar some idiot with a guitar will show up and announce he is the "music ministry." 

Also, your schola sounds pretty awesome. Any videos?
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#50
(06-22-2011, 02:27 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-21-2011, 05:01 PM)piabee Wrote: One thing that bothers me about SSPX high Masses is how much the congregation stands during the Canon. I was always taught to be on my knees for the most solemn part of the Mass. They don't even kneel at the Agnus Dei, which is a prayer of humility! Last time I was there for the Ascension they had someone knocking to signal when to kneel, etc. I don't see why it needs to be so regimented.

As I said in my previous post, if the congregation is standing while singing the Sanctus, that's more "correct" in my opinion. Then you kneel after the singing is done. Likewise, you stand while singing the Agnus Dei. If I recall correctly, the Agnus Dei is sung at solemn Mass while the ministers are exchanging the sign of peace, so people are supposed to be standing anyway.

But SSPX practice varies from place to place.

There are no rubrics for the congregation so they are not supposed to be doing anything in particular. The congregations is not part of the choir.
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