Variations in SSPX and diocesan Mass
#51
(06-22-2011, 08:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Actually, in front of the altar would be the ideal. Traditionally, this was so in older churches where the choir would seat in rows facing each other in a space between the sanctuary and the nave.

The altar would almost be invisible due to the rood screens and the choir. It's an arragement that is most fitting.

Rood screens and choir stalls? Yes, please.

[Image: cath30.jpg]



Someone1776 Wrote:I can see that, but the reality is if you build room for the choir near the altar some idiot with a guitar will show up and announce he is the "music ministry."

I don't think this is a real concern for a community that's already trad. I'd be more concerned about lay trads calling choirs in front modernist simply because they haven't seen European cathedral churches before and think choir lofts are all there is to tradition.
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#52
(06-22-2011, 08:17 PM)piabee Wrote: There are no rubrics for the congregation so they are not supposed to be doing anything in particular. The congregations is not part of the choir.

In the context of my post, I meant that since all the ministers in the sanctuary are standing during the exchange of peace during solemn Mass, it makes sense for the laity to stand as well during this part. Of course, all talk of lay postures are merely guidelines, and not hard rules.
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#53
(06-22-2011, 08:19 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Actually, in front of the altar would be the ideal. Traditionally, this was so in older churches where the choir would seat in rows facing each other in a space between the sanctuary and the nave.

The altar would almost be invisible due to the rood screens and the choir. It's an arrangement that is most fitting.

Rood screens and choir stalls? Yes, please.

[Image: cath30.jpg]

Yes, this is definitely the ideal.

I wish I would live to see the day when such pre-Trent arrangements will become the norm again.
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#54
(06-21-2011, 05:13 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(06-21-2011, 05:01 PM)piabee Wrote: One thing that bothers me about SSPX high Masses is how much the congregation stands during the Canon. I was always taught to be on my knees for the most solemn part of the Mass. They don't even kneel at the Agnus Dei, which is a prayer of humility! Last time I was there for the Ascension they had someone knocking to signal when to kneel, etc. I don't see why it needs to be so regimented.

I would bet that there is some diversity on this issue between different SSPX chapels.

There is indeed...Depends entirely on which SSPX chapel you attend
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#55
(06-22-2011, 08:27 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:19 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:08 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Actually, in front of the altar would be the ideal. Traditionally, this was so in older churches where the choir would seat in rows facing each other in a space between the sanctuary and the nave.

The altar would almost be invisible due to the rood screens and the choir. It's an arrangement that is most fitting.

Rood screens and choir stalls? Yes, please.

[Image: cath30.jpg]

Yes, this is definitely the ideal.

I wish I would live to see the day when such pre-Trent arrangements will become the norm again.

Do I hear a call for the formation of the Society of Pope Pius III!? This society would combat the abuses, such as the radical move of the choir to the back of the church, that emerged in the aftermath of the Council of Trent!

Note: I jest. 
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#56
The thing about choir lofts is that they were invented as a concession to the increasing popularity of mixed-sex choirs, operatic and showmanlike singing,and orchestral instruments that came about in the Baroque and later periods. As we prune these out in favor of plainchant or classic-style polyphony, all-male choirs and greater musical discipline, returning to choir stalls in the front of the church is the next logical step. It's only as much of an archaeologism or antiquarianism as Gregorian chant itself is.
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#57
(06-22-2011, 04:31 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 04:19 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: As the real Mass, slowly comes back, don't we have to expect variation?  Most new priests won't have seen it in the old days, as it were; and wouldn't there need to be minor changes to accommodate saying TLM in a building set up for NO?.....freestanding altar, no altar railing, misplaced tabernacle, etc.?

Fortunately, there are already provisions for all 3 of those "abnormalities" in the pre-Vatican II rubrics. Indeed, the freestanding altar is technically preferred.

Yes, the tabernacle is not necessarily assumed to be on the altar where Mass is being celebrated and while the freestanding altar is preferred by an incensing rubric; nevertheless, I am under the impression that holy Communion is assumed by the rubrics to be distributed at an altar rail.
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#58
(06-22-2011, 08:17 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I can see that, but the reality is if you build room for the choir near the altar some idiot with a guitar will show up and announce he is the "music ministry." 
:laughing: This.

Why restrict the choir to all males? I can see where it'd be logical at a priory or the like, where they're all men anyway.... Do you all have chapels that are big enough for an all male choir? In my chapel, there aren't enough.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#59
(06-23-2011, 06:20 AM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(06-22-2011, 08:17 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: I can see that, but the reality is if you build room for the choir near the altar some idiot with a guitar will show up and announce he is the "music ministry." 
:laughing: This.

Why restrict the choir to all males? I can see where it'd be logical at a priory or the like, where they're all men anyway.... Do you all have chapels that are big enough for an all male choir? In my chapel, there aren't enough.

In a parish church, there should be enough males.  When there aren't, there aren't, but ideally there would be.

I like hearing choirs of women too, and polyphony ... but a vested male choir in the sanctuary is awesome.

The only time I can think of where such a male choir is pointless / not the ideal would be in a convent or other house of women religious, obviously.
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#60
I remember hearing on a sermon from AudioSancto that the choir stalls were for when choirs were made up of clerics.
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