Some Italian bishops support building of mosques
#11
It does not seem to me to be 'obvious' that the Pope agrees with Liberals that mosques should be built in Italy. Yes, HH should put a stop to this. Would I, if I were Pope, just up and fire everybody who said anything heretical / Liberal? You bet your ass I would. But then again, I don't know anything about being a monarch, a head of state, a leader of the Church Universal or a Vicar of Christ.

Yes, HH should put a stop to this. However, the fact that he does not appear to be putting a stop to it does not mean that he agrees with it. I'm sure any number of people will spout off that it does, but if you really devote a little bit of quality intellection to the proposition before posting I'm sure you will see that there is not a logical entailment between those two propositions.

So either Vetus Ordo is belittling the Pope or he's making an egregiously spurious argument. Either way he ought to stop, because this is the Pope we're talking about here. If we're Catholics then we owe the Pope some respect.

Now I'm not beating up on Vetus, but we should speak with both precision and respect when we're talking about whether the Pope holds, of all things, an heretical position.

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#12
(06-29-2011, 11:02 PM)Adeodatus01 Wrote: Yes, [Benedict XI] should put a stop to this. However, the fact that he does not appear to be putting a stop to it does not mean that he agrees with it.

Emphasis mine.

Qui tacet consenti.
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#13
i agree with Adeo.

consider a scenario. H.H. Pope Benedict is scandalized to the core of his soul by this abomination. He goes to the Mayor of Rome. I want it stopped at least in Rome we must have this stopped. He soon after is obliged to give a private audience with the P2 leaders. They say we love you Pappa! - then, if we hear any more of this, any public pronouncement, anything, any public protests, then your priests will start disappearing, they'll start having accidents, you know, nothing traceable, but i'm sure you wouldn't want that to happen.

What would you do?

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#14
(06-30-2011, 06:57 AM)Bminor Mass Wrote: consider a scenario. H.H. Pope Benedict is scandalized to the core of his soul by this abomination. He goes to the Mayor of Rome. I want it stopped at least in Rome we must have this stopped. He soon after is obliged to give a private audience with the P2 leaders. They say we love you Pappa! - then, if we hear any more of this, any public pronouncement, anything, any public protests, then your priests will start disappearing, they'll start having accidents, you know, nothing traceable, but i'm sure you wouldn't want that to happen.

I agree that we cannot assume that the Holy Father approves of this; if for no other reason, his office pivileges him the benefit of doubt.

However, that position would be more tenable had he not, as Successor to St. Peter, gone to a Lutheran community in town, a Jewish Synagogue, and the Blue Mosque (built literally on the grave of the Greek Catholic Byzantine Empire) - and in neither case did he say 'convert.'
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#15
Cough
it wasn't  the mason. Who  actuall. Got a mosque built in Rome. It was jpii who did. Afer the Romans rejected th idea. Jpii pushed for it
u can assume dancing in thrbtulips all I want just like most if not all neocaths assume that jpii did all hebfoukd against the legions of pedo priests
yeah right
bekve what u want
action sadly speaks louder then words
sip
I'm sure the holy father really wants toe xpel all mohamadans from Europe snd launch a massive crusade to take the hoky land back too. He just sint saying so
uh uh
 
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#16
(06-29-2011, 09:27 PM)Adeodatus01 Wrote:
(06-29-2011, 07:59 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: I suspect the Pope is of the same mind as Card. Tettamanzi's.

Brother, I tire of hearing you belittle His Holiness.

And I'm tired of seeing manifest heretics with a mitre lay to waste the Lord's vineyard year after year, decade after decade, with no consequences.
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#17
(06-29-2011, 08:02 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: religion will end in
indifrentism, syncritism, evrything pther then catholicism.

Sounds like the Cardinal is leading up to just that.

"...... which was described just yesterday by Cardinal Tettamanzi in these terms:  ‘Milan is strongly urged to become once again Medio-lanum, in other words, the land of the middle, a crossroads for peoples who seek in the living God the only true answer to their questions in life."

Next up..... advocating the 'Chrislam' religion which has migrated to the US and taking hold in small protestant circles.
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#18
(06-29-2011, 08:02 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: i no longer get angry at news like this. sadly its not suprising. and actually is only the logical conclusion the new religion will end in
indifrentism, syncritism, evrything pther then catholicism.

That is not the vision of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue. Msgr Felix Machado states:

Quote:The call to dialogue entails inherent limits. It is not an uncritical and ambiguous engagement on the part of Catholic Christians, especially not in the field of theology. In other words, the Catholic Church exhorts her faithful to engage in dialogue with people of other religious traditions while at the same time obliging them to adhere uncompromisingly to the essential truths of Christian faith. The Catholic Church has been trying, especially in these past forty years, to incorporate the practice of interreligious dialogue in its overall teaching.

and later in that article:

Quote:Until now, in our dialogues, we have not paid sufficient and careful attention to essential differences between religions. Anxious to bring people of various religions together we have rather preferred to ignore or hide these basic differences. The result has often been a sudden eruption of inexplicable and shocking violence. To ignore the essential identity of a religion is to fail to know that religion. This failure can lead to an attitude of compromise on the part of the adherent, and can breed fear on the part of the partner in dialogue. This fear, in turn, creates hatred, which finally shows up in violent forms. In the absence of dialogue, frustrated extremists use violence even in an organised manner. This is why I strongly recommend a closer look at differences between religions through dialogue in order to acknowledge them and respect them. It is important that Hindus try to understand Christians in the integrity of the Church’s faith just as Christians should try to understand Hindus and respect them in the integrity of their religious beliefs.

Note his emphasis "especially not in the field of theology". I think you can have inter religious dialogue without compromising one's theology. The entire article is, I believe, worth reading.
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#19
So Catholics must respect false religions now?

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#20
(06-29-2011, 11:02 PM)Adeodatus01 Wrote: It does not seem to me to be 'obvious' that the Pope agrees with Liberals that mosques should be built in Italy. Yes, HH should put a stop to this. Would I, if I were Pope, just up and fire everybody who said anything heretical / Liberal? You bet your ass I would. But then again, I don't know anything about being a monarch, a head of state, a leader of the Church Universal or a Vicar of Christ.

Yes, HH should put a stop to this. However, the fact that he does not appear to be putting a stop to it does not mean that he agrees with it. I'm sure any number of people will spout off that it does, but if you really devote a little bit of quality intellection to the proposition before posting I'm sure you will see that there is not a logical entailment between those two propositions.

So either Vetus Ordo is belittling the Pope or he's making an egregiously spurious argument. Either way he ought to stop, because this is the Pope we're talking about here. If we're Catholics then we owe the Pope some respect.

Now I'm not beating up on Vetus, but we should speak with both precision and respect when we're talking about whether the Pope holds, of all things, an heretical position.

So what are we to make of Benedict XVI praying with Muslims in Mosques while facing Mecca? If he prays in Mosques with Muslims while facing Mecca, why on Earth would you believe that he would be against the building of more Mosques for him to worship in with Muslims?
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