Does Anybody Know About This??
#11
(07-04-2011, 12:26 PM)salus Wrote: OK bring back the Sarum Missal then. Was it  offered in Latin back then exclusively, and would it be wise for the Anglicans coming back in to use the Sarum Missal today except in English.

While I'm personally all in favor of restoring the Sarum Missal and would ideally like to have a Sarum wedding, I think most ex-Anglican Catholics aren't interested in the Sarum revival. They tend to either want the Novus Ordo, the Tridentine (or Anglican Missal, which is the Tridentine in English), or the BDW (the "Romanized Cranmer" book). Full Sarum liturgies are rather complicated and can use multiple deacons and subdeacons, multiple thurifers and crucifers, acolytes in tunicles, choristers in copes, even ostrich fans. It is a rite from the highest heights of Christendom's history, minus some of the classic Roman Rite's austerity.

Now, as for the vernacular, the Sarum Use was conducted all in Latin except for parts of the wedding rite and stuff like that. As a concession, I am okay with hieratic English (so-called "King James" English). That, however, is not a historical practice.
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#12
(07-04-2011, 12:35 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: Full Sarum liturgies are rather complicated and can use multiple deacons and subdeacons, multiple thurifers and crucifers, acolytes in tunicles, choristers in copes, even ostrich fans. It is a rite from the highest heights of Christendom's history, minus some of the classic Roman Rite's austerity.
And it probably makes you drool, doesn't it?
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#13
(07-04-2011, 12:35 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(07-04-2011, 12:26 PM)salus Wrote: OK bring back the Sarum Missal then. Was it  offered in Latin back then exclusively, and would it be wise for the Anglicans coming back in to use the Sarum Missal today except in English.

While I'm personally all in favor of restoring the Sarum Missal and would ideally like to have a Sarum wedding, I think most ex-Anglican Catholics aren't interested in the Sarum revival. They tend to either want the Novus Ordo, the Tridentine (or Anglican Missal, which is the Tridentine in English), or the BDW (the "Romanized Cranmer" book). Full Sarum liturgies are rather complicated and can use multiple deacons and subdeacons, multiple thurifers and crucifers, acolytes in tunicles, choristers in copes, even ostrich fans. It is a rite from the highest heights of Christendom's history, minus some of the classic Roman Rite's austerity.

Now, as for the vernacular, the Sarum Use was conducted all in Latin except for parts of the wedding rite and stuff like that. As a concession, I am okay with hieratic English (so-called "King James" English). That, however, is not a historical practice.

HK,

Was there anything about the Sarum Rite that was lost due to Henry VIII's break from Catholicism? I'm talking about rubrics, written prayers, etc. Also, there were two other Rites in England at that time, the York and Lincoln Rites. What do you know about them?
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#14
(07-04-2011, 03:03 PM)CrusaderKing Wrote: HK,

Was there anything about the Sarum Rite that was lost due to Henry VIII's break from Catholicism? I'm talking about rubrics, written prayers, etc. Also, there were two other Rites in England at that time, the York and Lincoln Rites. What do you know about them?

One reason a full Sarum restoration may be impossible is that not all the books survive. How does one perform a Sarum confirmation or clerical ordination? To my knowledge, there is no surviving Sarum equivalent to the Rituale or Pontificale Romanum.

But the weird thing is that Henry VIII wouldn't have considered himself to have broken from Catholicism. In his eyes, he nationalized the Church and got rid of the religious class, but he didn't change the religion. Therefore, there probably were no changes to the Sarum Missal during his reign except for perhaps cutting the Pope out of the Canon and Saint Thomas Becket out of the calendar.

I'd have to do some reading to say for sure, though.
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#15
Rosarium I believe our Pope believes in continuity as far as the liturgy. Not only is there a lack of continuity for the so-called Anglican Use but it's not even Catholic. Also we already have one made up liturgy , The Novus Ordo we don't need a second, the NO has done enough damage. Maybe its not practical to go back to the Sarum Missal but they could return to the Traditional Latin Mass which does has continuity with the Church in England. There is no such thing as an Anglican Church, just the Roman Catholic Church in England, at least to Almighty God.
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#16
(07-04-2011, 12:35 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: Full Sarum liturgies are rather complicated and can use multiple deacons and subdeacons, multiple thurifers and crucifers, acolytes in tunicles, choristers in copes, even ostrich fans. It is a rite from the highest heights of Christendom's history, minus some of the classic Roman Rite's austerity.

That is winning.
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#17
(07-05-2011, 11:43 AM)salus Wrote: Rosarium I believe our Pope believes in continuity as far as the liturgy. Not only is there a lack of continuity for the so-called Anglican Use but it's not even Catholic.

I don't mind that people nay-say the Anglican Use. But you can't invoke Pope Benedict in your argument. He affirms the Anglican Use as Catholic, and he is the architect of Anglicanorum Coetibus. As someone who was baptized in an Anglican Use parish, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about here.
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#18
What about all this tinkering when Catholics have had a Mass in England without interruption? I see England as no different than any other nation -- no to the NO, yes to tradition. Anglicans should go to a traditional Roman Rite Mass. While it may be a benefit to the faithful in England to restore the Sarum missal, I am not in favor of restoring any Cranmer descended liturgies. I am in favor of welcoming the Anglicans into the fold, but they need to leave the revolution behind.
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#19
Agreed Scriptorium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#20
Are these members of the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham  really traditional or just don't like homosexual clergy and other aberations? If they truly were traditional they would choose as their mass either the Roman Missal (1962) or the Sarum Missal, they would not be acting as liberal Novus Ordo clergy making up a liturgy according to their whims. I'm beginning to worry about this group. :pray: :pray: :pray:
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