Medjugorge: Why Do Trads Hate it?
#31
Sorry here is the link re Garabandal.http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml
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#32
(07-10-2011, 08:08 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: I've been to Medj  :tomatoes: and although it is a quaint little town, the apparitions are pure bull, for reasons stated earlier in this thread, such as "Mary's" heretical messages. Pure bull.

And all people like to do is tell me that all the conversions and what have you are a sign that it's true and good.
Well guess what, that has nothing to do with the apparitions themselves. You could put the same people, with the same solid Faith, with the same fervor, with the same amount of confessions, and rosaries said, into the 7th circle of hell and it's still going to bear fruit. It's the prayers and the Faith of those who go that bears the fruit, not the apparitions.

It's all hooey crap. Go to Fatima instead.

This is exactly what I think, except for the part about the 7th circle of hell, there is no fruit there, nothing grows in that literally God forsaken place.
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#33
(07-11-2011, 05:33 AM)EIRCOMNET Wrote: Sorry here is the link re Garabandal.http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml

Thanks for that info. I had not read that before. I have also read this, which is a counter-point: http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitio...ndal2.html

One of them is lying, and I don't care enough about this to spend more of my time figuring it out.
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#34
"Medjugore: Why do Trads hate it?"

The reasons have pretty much all been stated prior to my post.

- Not approved by Church
- Heretical and blasphemous messages
- Breeds disobedience
- Detracts from zeal meant for Eucharist and Sacraments in favour of a visible 'apparition' . (Funny thing is, those who go there have no capacity to 'view Mary' (or the devil more likely) but still insist in going)
- 30 years of ambiguous and truly erroneous messages
- It detracts from approved and much more noble apparitions.


Personally, I have no desire to ever go to any apparition site, but the fact that this false one is so popular is annoying to me.
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#35
(07-10-2011, 09:30 PM)charlesh Wrote:
(07-10-2011, 06:12 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I think one of the reasons that the Church hasn't made a judgement on it is that the apparitions are still continuing to this day. The Church waits until the apparitions have stopped to make a judgement.

Actually, the Church has condemned it. It is for the local bishop to condemn or approve an apparition. Take Akita and Fatima as examples. In each case, the local bishop lead an investigation and with time he approved it. Same thing at Lourdes and everywhere else. Fatima is a little different because there was a message in there for the Pope and the Pope did his own investigating into the message, but the apparition itself was approved by the local bishop, not the pope. In the case of Medjugorje, the bishop has said there is nothing supernatural going on. That is a condemnation. Same thing at Garabandal. A lot of trads like that creepy apparition, but the local bishop said nothing supernatural is going on. It, too, is condemned.

I think what has to be determined at Medjugorje is whether it's a diabolical manifestation, or just a simple con game. I think it's just a hoax, but aren't there a lot of folks who claim to have seen the Miracle of the Sun there? If so, then it very well may be a diabolical manifestation. Somebody on this forum wrote about a family member who went to Medj. and came back absolutely fanatical and bonkers. That sure isn't a good fruit.

Thank you.  I was pretty sure I had heard this too.  As a matter of fact, I think the local Bishop has even made statements asking priests not to visit the site with 'pilgrims'.
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#36

(07-10-2011, 09:30 PM)charlesh Wrote: Same thing at Garabandal

My feelings, not that one should take much stock in them, never felt right about that apparition.
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#37
(07-11-2011, 06:57 PM)Daniel Louis Mary Wrote:
(07-10-2011, 08:08 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: I've been to Medj  :tomatoes: and although it is a quaint little town, the apparitions are pure bull, for reasons stated earlier in this thread, such as "Mary's" heretical messages. Pure bull.

And all people like to do is tell me that all the conversions and what have you are a sign that it's true and good.
Well guess what, that has nothing to do with the apparitions themselves. You could put the same people, with the same solid Faith, with the same fervor, with the same amount of confessions, and rosaries said, into the 7th circle of hell and it's still going to bear fruit. It's the prayers and the Faith of those who go that bears the fruit, not the apparitions.

It's all hooey crap. Go to Fatima instead.

This is exactly what I think, except for the part about the 7th circle of hell, there is no fruit there, nothing grows in that literally God forsaken place.

Indeed.
I was just trying to make a point, for the record  :)
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#38
(07-12-2011, 12:21 AM)LausTibiChriste Wrote:
(07-11-2011, 06:57 PM)Daniel Louis Mary Wrote:
(07-10-2011, 08:08 PM)LausTibiChriste Wrote: I've been to Medj  :tomatoes: and although it is a quaint little town, the apparitions are pure bull, for reasons stated earlier in this thread, such as "Mary's" heretical messages. Pure bull.

And all people like to do is tell me that all the conversions and what have you are a sign that it's true and good.
Well guess what, that has nothing to do with the apparitions themselves. You could put the same people, with the same solid Faith, with the same fervor, with the same amount of confessions, and rosaries said, into the 7th circle of hell and it's still going to bear fruit. It's the prayers and the Faith of those who go that bears the fruit, not the apparitions.

It's all hooey crap. Go to Fatima instead.

It was a good point. I'll be making my first pilgrimage in August. I wont be anywhere near Medj. the plan is Rome and Assi, then Madrid. I would love to go to Knock someday, even though it's not as popular as Fatima or Lourdes. :)
This is exactly what I think, except for the part about the 7th circle of hell, there is no fruit there, nothing grows in that literally God forsaken place.

Indeed.
I was just trying to make a point, for the record  :)
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#39
(07-11-2011, 08:39 PM)SeaTrad Wrote:
(07-10-2011, 09:30 PM)charlesh Wrote:
(07-10-2011, 06:12 AM)MichaelNZ Wrote: I think one of the reasons that the Church hasn't made a judgement on it is that the apparitions are still continuing to this day. The Church waits until the apparitions have stopped to make a judgement.

Actually, the Church has condemned it. It is for the local bishop to condemn or approve an apparition. Take Akita and Fatima as examples. In each case, the local bishop lead an investigation and with time he approved it. Same thing at Lourdes and everywhere else. Fatima is a little different because there was a message in there for the Pope and the Pope did his own investigating into the message, but the apparition itself was approved by the local bishop, not the pope. In the case of Medjugorje, the bishop has said there is nothing supernatural going on. That is a condemnation. Same thing at Garabandal. A lot of trads like that creepy apparition, but the local bishop said nothing supernatural is going on. It, too, is condemned.

I think what has to be determined at Medjugorje is whether it's a diabolical manifestation, or just a simple con game. I think it's just a hoax, but aren't there a lot of folks who claim to have seen the Miracle of the Sun there? If so, then it very well may be a diabolical manifestation. Somebody on this forum wrote about a family member who went to Medj. and came back absolutely fanatical and bonkers. That sure isn't a good fruit.

Thank you.  I was pretty sure I had heard this too.  As a matter of fact, I think the local Bishop has even made statements asking priests not to visit the site with 'pilgrims'.

18 Mar 2010 – The Vatican has released a statement confirming the formation of a commission to investigate the "phenomenon" of Medjugorje.
http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=20089

But in a recent about face, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, former head of the Vatican's office on doctrine, has launched an unprecedented investigation into Medjugorje before the apparitions ceased. A major change in Vatican policy.
http://www.catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=9321

I imagine when this investigation is finalized it will end the nonsense.
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#40
(07-11-2011, 08:20 PM)charlesh Wrote:
(07-11-2011, 05:33 AM)EIRCOMNET Wrote: Sorry here is the link re Garabandal.http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml

Thanks for that info. I had not read that before. I have also read this, which is a counter-point: http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitio...ndal2.html

One of them is lying, and I don't care enough about this to spend more of my time figuring it out.

Thanks charlesh, I hadn't read that page on Garabandal.  I had read a lot of the garabandal.org site and thought some things don't make sense.  But I did compare the warning and the miracle of Garabandal to the same that the mystics had about the Three Days of Darkness.  I have just skimmed threw the page you posted but I'll have to take some more time to compare it to the Three Days of Darkness.
http://www.olrl.org/prophecy/daysdark.shtml

I didn't realize that Rawanda was also condemned.  I figured it true because it previously predicted the genocide.

I think, like many others have said, that Medjugorje and others just takes away from the important message of Fatima. 
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