3 Natures in Christ
#31
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

I wouldn't say three substances, but still two.  There is only body and soul, matter and spirit.  Yes, He had both the spirit of a man and the divine spirit, but these are ultimately two kinds of the same substance, which is why our human souls are eternal.
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#32
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

Christ is One Person with two natures, one divine, one human.  Can't you understand that?
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#33
The natures have come into an hypostatic union so that after the union of NAtures in Christ, there is only incarnate Divine Being, "Christ" the Word incarnate. St. Cyril bearing witness.
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#34
(08-01-2011, 07:26 PM)Gregory I Wrote: The natures have come into an hypostatic union so that after the union of NAtures in Christ, there is only incarnate Divine Being, "Christ" the Word incarnate. St. Cyril bearing witness.


This.
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#35
THANKS! ;D
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#36
(08-01-2011, 02:18 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

I wouldn't say three substances, but still two.  There is only body and soul, matter and spirit.  Yes, He had both the spirit of a man and the divine spirit, but these are ultimately two kinds of the same substance, which is why our human souls are eternal.

So the Divine Spirit is the same substance as the Human Spirit.
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#37
(08-02-2011, 12:11 AM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 02:18 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

I wouldn't say three substances, but still two.  There is only body and soul, matter and spirit.  Yes, He had both the spirit of a man and the divine spirit, but these are ultimately two kinds of the same substance, which is why our human souls are eternal.

So the Divine Spirit is the same substance as the Human Spirit.

In a sense, yes.  They both are spirit in substance, just as salt water and fresh water are both still water.  Also, the human spirit has as its source the divine spirit.
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#38
(08-01-2011, 06:54 PM)wulfrano Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

Christ is One Person with two natures, one divine, one human.  Can't you understand that?

Oh yes I understand that. Forget the title of the thread for a second; we have established that Christ has two natures in hypostatic (ὑπόστᾰσις) union of those natures (well actually St Cyril and the Fathers of Ephesus established that, lol) but now the question is stated as three substances. These substances are not to be confused with natures (i.e. the two natures human and divine) but the substances that make up the human nature. My issue is not with the substance of the divine nature, which is entirely spiritual, but the separate spiritual substance in the nature of man.

The answer is essentially contained by Thomas Aquinas:

Disregard the context of the objection, which is properly answered, in regard to the Eucharist. Note the Bolded term.

<Since therefore Christ exists in three substances, namely, the Godhead, soul and body, as shown above (Question [2], Article [5]; Question [5], Articles [1],3), it seems that the entire Christ is not under this sacrament.>>


Q 2, A 5.

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#39
(08-02-2011, 12:17 AM)Walty Wrote:
(08-02-2011, 12:11 AM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 02:18 PM)Walty Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:58 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote:
(08-01-2011, 01:52 PM)Walty Wrote: Body and soul/spirit are not natures but substances.  It is the nature of God and the angels to have one spiritual substance.  It is the nature of plants and animals to have one bodily or physical substance.  And the nature of humanity is to be the kiss of the substances of body and soul.

So you are agreeing that we could say that Christ has three substances, two natures, and one person?

I wouldn't say three substances, but still two.  There is only body and soul, matter and spirit.  Yes, He had both the spirit of a man and the divine spirit, but these are ultimately two kinds of the same substance, which is why our human souls are eternal.

So the Divine Spirit is the same substance as the Human Spirit.

In a sense, yes.  They both are spirit in substance, just as salt water and fresh water are both still water.  Also, the human spirit has as its source the divine spirit.

Quote:

"...the human spirit has as its source the divine spirit."

Dear Walty:
Sounds like Pantheism to me.
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#40
Sounds like ACTUALY monophysitism.

THe human spirit and the Holy Spirit are NOT the same substance; the Human spirit is created. THe Holy Spirit is uncreated. THerefore, the created, having no relation to the uncreated, is nOT of the same substance; for GOd did not make men from HIMSELF, but rather, he creates the soul immediately from nothing.
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