Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-20-2011, 01:11 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 12:23 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 12:01 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: Here is St. John Chrysostom's Homily on the passage from Romans:

Few points of clarification.

I would not approach the subject in the manner of the OP.  What we call Molinism is not heresy, the correct distinctions being made.  Furthermore, the Roman Church does not decisively or dogmatically settle the dispute between Molinists and Thomists.

As a Thomist, I am arguing for what I consider to be the more likely theological opinion.

Here is a quote from the homily that caught my eye.

"What was the cause then why one was loved and the other hated? Why was it that one served, the other was served? It was because one was wicked, and the other good. And yet the children being not yet born, one was honored and the other condemned. For when they were not as yet born, God said, the elder shall serve the younger. With what intent then did God say this? Because He does not wait, as man does, to see from the issue of their acts the good and him who is not so, but even before these He knows which is the wicked and which not such. And this took place in the Israelites' case also, in a still more wonderful way. Why, he says, do I speak of Esau and of Jacob, of whom one was wicked and the other good? For in the Israelites' case, the sin belonged to all, since they all worshipped the calf. Yet notwithstanding some had mercy shown them, and others had not."

St John seems to be teaching that God predestines because He knows what our free choice will be. I don't know enough about Molinism or St Thomas to know how that teaching compares.

From what I read of the Homily, St. John Chrysostom's position seems to be closer to Molina than to St. Thomas.

I was sincere in what I said before.  If you are aware of other relevant passages from the fathers, please bring them to the table.  I am not 100% committed to any position.  The mysteries involved in the interaction between grace, free will, and God's knowledge will always be beyond us this side of heaven.  Nonetheless, since reading Fr. Lagrange, I have held Thomism as the likely theological opinion.

I don't know what the position of St Thomas is. I am somewhat familiar with Calvinism and I know that it was condemned as heresy by a synod in Jerusalem in 1672. I've always understood the orthodox position to be that God loves and desires the salvation of every single human being and that it is our free choice to accept or reject God's love that determines whether or not we are saved.

What is the Catholic position? What did St Thomas teach? I've heard that it is similar in some respects to Calvinism.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Silouan - 07-20-2011, 02:00 PM

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