Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-20-2011, 04:59 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 03:42 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 02:35 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 01:12 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 12:26 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(07-20-2011, 11:37 AM)Christus Imperat Wrote: By the way, I think the A/T doctrine of salvation is well summarized by Our Lord as follows:

"You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."  --St. John 15:16

In context, isn't this about Jesus electing them to the office of apostle, and not a genreal teaching on election to salvation?

Yes it is.  But I would broaden the scope in a metaphorical sense. 

Isn't that one of the ways heresies get started?  Broadening the scope of a passage to use it as a way to explain a theolegoumena the passage was never intended to mean in the first place?  So, to use St. Augustine's (I believe) principle for scriptural interpretation, wouldn't it be unwise to interpret this as anything other than election to the apostolic office?

There are other relevant passages like the one in Romans that I quoted earlier.

Yes, that one is not so easy to dismiss.  I have never been comfortable with that passage.  I want to believe that St. Paul only meant it in a speculative manner, but admittedly there isn't really any reason for it to be there if he only meant it as a speculation.  Hence the discomfoert.

Actually, I find it liberating. God is in control, not me. He is the sovereign king of the universe, the author and finisher of our faith.

Salvation comes from God, not me. I glory in the Lord, not in my merits. He is the source of all good and all justice. I abandon myself to His will.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Vetus Ordo - 07-20-2011, 05:06 PM

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