Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-28-2011, 11:19 PM)Walty Wrote:
(07-28-2011, 11:12 PM)Melkite Wrote: Ok, Walty, this is a rough copy and paste job, but here you go:

St. Ambrose explains, "that having granted the law to all, He excludes no one from His kingdom."
"The Son of Righteousness," we are told by St. Gregory the Theologian, "shown forth for all, lived for all and died and is risen for all."
"Grace," says the divine Chrysostom (St. John), "though it is grace, yet it saves only those who desire."
"Salvation," according to the words of the Theologian (St. Gregory), "must be our work and God's."
This is the view of St. Gregory of Nyssa: "The righteous judgement of God takes into consideration our disposition. He grants to us according to our inner feelings."
"Foreknowledge of God, the Theologian tells us, is intuitive and not active."

There were also references from St. John of Damascus and St. Basil the Great, but I didn't include them because they weren't direct quotes.  If you read the article, it makes more sense.

The second and last quotations, in my opinion, do not support Molinism necessarily.  A Thomist would agree with those.  Garrigou-Lagrange writes about how Christ did indeed die sufficiently for all, but only efficaciously for some.

The other quotes do support Molinism, however, I think the theology is still in error.  Also, the weight of those Fathers, in my opinion, does not outweigh the authority behind an Augustinian/Thomistic approach to predestination.

I also meant to write earlier, asking whether these pre-schism saints were either Thomist or Molinist is about as flawed as asking whether Augustine and Aquinas were Calvinist or Arminian.

Secondarily, this is the problem as I see it with the Thomist stance.  If I'm not mistaken, it relies entirely on the theology of of Thomas Aquinas and Augustine.  Why do two fathers of the Church have such overwhelming authority that they would outweigh St. Ambrose, St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nyssa, etc., etc.?  I'm not suggesting that the Church, excluding Augustine and Aquinas were unanimously against Augustinian pre-destination.  But for me, it becomes a question of, if there are so many Fathers who seem to be what you define as Molinist, that would seem to suggest that the Augustinian view is an aberration and not a part of the apostolic deposit of faith.  If the deposit is Augustinian and Thomist in its views on predestination, are there a plethora of Fathers that can be referrenced to support it?  If so, that would give the argument greater weight.  But if that is the case, why are Augustine and Aquinas solely relied upon?  If there aren't others, then it makes it look as if the Roman Church abandoned the deposit in favor of Augustine's theology, which is made to look heterodox by it's apparent breach with the Apostolic Faith.  The last couple of sentences are just speculation on my part.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Melkite - 07-28-2011, 11:38 PM

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