Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism?
(07-28-2011, 11:12 PM)Melkite Wrote: Ok, Walty, this is a rough copy and paste job, but here you go:

St. Ambrose explains, "that having granted the law to all, He excludes no one from His kingdom."
"The Son of Righteousness," we are told by St. Gregory the Theologian, "shown forth for all, lived for all and died and is risen for all."
"Grace," says the divine Chrysostom (St. John), "though it is grace, yet it saves only those who desire."
"Salvation," according to the words of the Theologian (St. Gregory), "must be our work and God's."
This is the view of St. Gregory of Nyssa: "The righteous judgement of God takes into consideration our disposition. He grants to us according to our inner feelings."
"Foreknowledge of God, the Theologian tells us, is intuitive and not active."

There were also references from St. John of Damascus and St. Basil the Great, but I didn't include them because they weren't direct quotes.  If you read the article, it makes more sense.

In response to St. Ambrose:

Of Course, Christ died for men of every tribe tongue and nation. All kinds of people from every station and walk of life can come to Christ. That is definitely true. BUT that does not mean that he actively wills the individual and personal salvation of every individual person. This is seen in Scripture. When Christ was saying, "Woe to you Corazin, Woe to you Bethsaida, For if Tyre and Sidon had seen the miracles you had seen, they would have repented." That means that even though some people WOULD have repented, nevertheless, God did not will their salvation. God does not owe it to us.

In response to St. John Chrysostom, None can desire God unless God first gives them grace. So if some do not desire God, he has not given them the Victorious delight of Grace and does not will to save them.

Salvation IS our work and God's, but it is UTTERLY DEPENDENT on God's FIRST initiative. There is no exception.

I agree with St. Gregory of Nyssa, that he grants to us according to our disposition. But this is in the order of persevering in grace, not the first gift of Justification which is fully free and undeserved and unearned.

Sorry, but St. Gregory the Theologian's claim cannot be maintained. If God's foreknowledge is not active, it is passive. But God is pure act. Therefore he has no passive relationship with things. Also, he is not IN TIME. He is outside it, so foreknowledge, is itself a misnomer, because it implies he is standing at one end of the spectrum, and looking at the other end. No. He is above all times, outside all times, and experiences ALL OUR TIME as His NOW.

That means, the very act of the creation of the soul is simultaneously the predestination of that soul to its end and also simultaneously the predestination of all the free actions of that soul. For God has infinite knowledge of all our actions before he creates us. Yet, in choosing to create us, he chooses to enact the end we freely choose. Thus, we are predestined in the use of our freedom, and our ends are fixed through OUR choices; yet, his creating us KNOWING what we will do means he is the first cause of all our actions. Yet he is in no way the author of our evil will.

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Re: Can we extricate ourselves from Molinism? - by Gregory I - 07-29-2011, 01:54 AM

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